Cranick's Folly: Libertarianism at its finest?

Gee Whiz, I didn’t realize the county was run by Democrats, what with them voting 66% for McCain, I foolishly assumed they were Republicans, or they had non-partisan local government. You didn’t actually provide a cite that the county was run by Democrats, but don’t bother, I trust you. :wink:

It’s clear enough to me that the motive was to avoid raising taxes. I’m not going to chase down random county commissioners to ask them about their motivation. Maybe the folks who had their houses burn down should do the asking.

I for one am shocked to see that nothing was learned from Cranick’s Folly.

There’s an old saying in Tennessee. I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says: “Fool me once…shame on…shame on you… if fooled, you can’t get fooled again.”

The problem isn’t libertarian as Der Tris and Septimus so desperately want it to be. How is it that a year went by and nothing changed? The people of Obion County didn’t learn anything. It seems people on this message board didn’t learn anything either.

You get the government you deserve. If the people of Obion County wanted a different system they could have it. So if the state, the federal government, or God all mighty himself stepped in to force a solution nothing would change because the people of Obion County don’t want a different system. The more likely outcome would be an underfunded fire department what wasn’t able to help. That’s what’s known as middle of the road solutions. There is a reason you’re not supposed to drive in the middle of the road.

It’s obvious to all of us how fucked up this situation is, just as it was obvious the last time it happened. Blaming it on libertarianism is just sad and pathetic at this point, but I guess that’s what happens when you’ve only got the one pony.

The people of Obion County could have fixed this a year ago, they opted not to. Maybe we should tax people in Wyoming to pay for fire services in West Tennessee. Or maybe we should set up a Straight Dope Message Board Endowment for Fire Protection Services. I’d love to see how much would be raised.

I think I addressed this upthread, but since that was a year ago, I’ll go again.

I do not condemn the city fire department for refusing to extend charity.

I do condemn the peculiar twisted morality that the U.S.A. has adopted in which
[ul][li] a county cannot assess taxes for fire protection because “taxes are evil theft”;[/li][li] voters applaud when they hear their candidate brag about executing prisoners, or expressing content that Americans without health insurance be allowed to die;[/li][li] otherwise intelligent posters on this very Board, rather than condemning the depravity of American political sentiment (far worse than that of any developed country, as well as many less developed countries) implied by OP, find it more appropriate to affirm their own faith in that depravity by applauding the destruction of a man’s home, however indigent or stupid that man may have been.[/li][/ul]

Hope this helps.

Because they apparently have a libertarian ideology; “let the poor burn”.

It’s obvious that the situation is “fucked up” because they have a libertarian view on how to run their fire department, and libertarianism is fucked up.

You make me think of the Christians who deflect criticism of Christianity because of the people who commit barbarities in its name because “they aren’t true Christians”. What has happened in this county is bad, therefore in your eyes what they are doing can’t be libertarian because as far as you are concerned libertarianism can never have bad results.

They’re going to vote in February on doing just that:

You would have been among the first to campaign against any new taxes, or government program, probably advocating that all fire-fighting services be privatised. Stated differently, we blame libertarian thinking because libertarian thinking is the problem.

Now, rather than being near-genius libertarian philosophers like you ( :smiley: ), the voters in Tennessee may be weak-minded souls deluded by Beck, Limbaugh, and other heroes of the Right. But that just makes it clear that the solution is to stamp out the depraved libertarian thinking that makes gullible greed-worshiping Americans applaud when the indigent are denied medical care or fire protection.

Do we need ask which side you are on?

No matter how many times you write that it’s never going to be true. It wasn’t true the last time, it won’t be true the next time. It would be nice if you could realize that but I’m not holding my breath.

The ideology that they did have was, “let people choose if they want to pay for fire protection.”

When people talk about intellectual dishonesty, and dishonest debating, nothing sums it up more than a person that can spew the exact same erroneous bullshit a year later. It’s obvious you learned nothing then, and unlikely you’ll learn anything now. It’s almost as if you’re intentionally saying inflammatory things just to get a rise out of people.

Everyone in that county had an opportunity to change things and opted for status quo. You’ll notice that even “the poor” that you speak so highly of also chose that path. If “the poor” wanted to they could made it an issue.

Again, wrong. If anything this is a failure of democracy. Chew on that for a minute and then realize that the system wasn’t forced on them, nor are they locked into it, nor did this catch them by surprise. Just because they may or may not have a libertarian view (which has still not been proven either way) nothing forces them to keep it on this issue. Libertarianism isn’t a dogma that must be followed while Rome burns.

And even after all that, people still CHOOSE not to pay. That has nothing to do with libertarianism no matter how much you need it to. The fact that they had a system resembling libertarianism in its nature doesn’t make it so.

Bullshit, libertarianism can and does have terrible results, just like every other system in existence. Do you really think this is the first mobile home to go up in flames? What’s more likely is that you see a bad result and desperately need it to fit into your simple little system. You need so badly for it to be about libetarianism. But it’s not, except that people were given a choice, and they chose wrong.

So tell me, do you think the government should go against the wishes of its population and
institution unwanted reforms?

And you know what really gets me annoyed by all this bullshit is that for a year the libertarian system as it’s been defined worked just fine. No one gave a shit about it while mobile homes didn’t burn down. The people that paid received service. And eventually, the person that opts not to gets screwed.

Do you think anyone has learned anything yet? I doubt it.

Bullshit. You don’t know me, and you don’t know what I’d campaign for. I don’t give a fuck what system is used. If it’s a tax I’ll pay it, if it’s a subscription I’ll pay that too. The people of Obion County choose their system, this is what they get.

If you want to flame people, go after the heartless bastards that knew this system existed and didn’t offer up any of their own money to help those in needs. It’s fun to play tough guy on the internet,but it’s been a year now, did YOU ever offer money to help the people of this sad little county? Did you ever bother to turn off SD and check to see if there were people in trailer-parks that needed fire protection? Instead, here you are trying to make assumptions about me. At any point you are welcomed to put your money where your mouth is.

Nothing in Obion County prevented private charities from offering up funds. Nor did anything stop you from offering up your own personal funds. So why didn’t you?

Again, it seems that like Der Tris you’re problem isn’t with Libertarianism it’s with democracy. What you’re saying is that the people of Obion Country are too stupid to vote for what’s in their best interests. What other aspects of their day to day life do you think you should control for them? What sort of system would you like to see in place to prevent them from voting for stupid things?

I’ve been trying to stamp out ignorance for years now. This thread and your posts are a testament to how hard ignorance fights back. Your problem is that you see the Beck-watching people has some how different from yourself. Same coin, two sides.

This aspect baffles me way, but unfortunately people would rather focus on libertarianism.

“She says she knew if there was a fire, she would be out of luck.”

WTF? How do people live like that?

Because human beings have defective brains that makes them absolutely shit at assessing long-term risk/reward, especially when there’s short-term reward in the way.

“It’ll never happen to me.”

Not asking you too. The county was split closely between Bush and Gore, and again in 2004. They recently helped put a Republican Congressman in the , but still have a Dem State Senator. So even today, this is hardly a bastion of Red sentiment - and we’re discussing a period 23 years long.

So, to recap:

  • We have a traditionally Yellow Dog (as Jas09 accuartely says) area.
  • At least as early (and the idea might have been floated before; we don’t know) as 1988, people considered the idea of fire service and discarded it.
  • The area is rural - not usually a sign of Libertarianism, which is an urban and intellectual movement.
  • It long predates the Tea Party, which has been characterized so wildly that it seems Leftist Dopers just call it whatever’s convenient at the moment.
  • It has changed its voting patterns to be more Red, but votes for some Democrats.

I would like to direct you to a convenient County Website, but it seems they don’t have one.

No, you don’t get off that easy. You didn’t say the motive was “not raising taxes”. You characterized it as a mindless ideological stance motivated by fear and hatred. Maybe they decided it wasn’t a worthwhile investment. Maybe they decided the county couldn’t easily manage such a service. Given the nature fo the issue, it seems service does exist in Obion, and perhaps they decided that adequate coverage already existed for homeowners who chose responsibility.

What you said may amount to libel.

Dude, shut up.