Crating dogs??

In My Humble Opinion
1

This is the second time I have done this and I kind of feel bad doing it again. But I have a question for American pet owners.

The first time I did this I asked about inside cats. It seems the world is a lot harsher for American cats then other cats. There were many reasons why people felt their cats should never see the outside…mostly it summed up to the fact they loved them. Well loved them too much to expose them dangers.

Now have another question. Dogs this time. I keep hearing the expression “crating”. Now I have no actual idea what this expression means but from the context I have read it in (here and elsewhere) it means confining a dog to a cage for part of the day…and it sounds like the cage is inside. Please please correct me if I’m wrong. If a dog is inside why should it be “crated”.

Why is “crating” something that is needed?

2

To be blunt about it, so he won’t piss and crap on the floor while his owners are away at work. Also so he/she/it doesnt get rambunctious while bored and damage anything.

Some people swear by it, I personally think that to own a dog one should have a house and yard, with a dog door so pooch can go outside and take care of business, play, romp, bark at the cats. OR either have someone who is home most of the day to let said pooch in and out, or walk pooch, OR hire someone to come in once or twice a day while you are at work to walk said pooch. YMMV.

[how would you like being restrained in your work cubicle with no way to get out to use the bathroom until your shift is over, or a supervisor comes over to let you leave…]

3

My two dogs are crate trained.

It wasn’t all about pooping and peeing around the house. Sure, it did help with the housebreaking because dogs don’t like to crap where they sleep. So I could put the dogs in their crates when I stepped out and not worry about an accident. However, that wasn’t the main reason I decided to go with crate training. I decided for it after the older dog had an incident where she chewed on an electrical cord while I was away and ended up with severe burns on her mouth. (I could have sworn the room she was in was puppy safe, but I didn’t think about that one lamp). She was still young enough to start crate training, and I thought it would give me peace of mind to have her confined while I was away. It does.

Both dogs seem to like their crates. They’ll go hop into them whenever they want a nap or just some alone time. Aside from a slight reluctance on the part of the older dog when I started crate training (the younger one was crate trained from the get go), neither dog has shown any aversions to getting into their crates when I ask them to.

But crates are not a substitute for watching and caring for your dogs. Mine are never crated for more than 4-5 hours at a time. I put them in before I go to work, and a neighbor kids takes them out for a walk them in the early afternoon. They go back in until I get back from work. Then they get another walk and some play time. No dog should be standing at the door of his crate with his legs crossed dying to get out because he has to go badly. But it is a safe way to confine your dogs when you’re away. They have a yard that they go out in all the time. But I don’t want them running around the house getting into trouble while I’m away. And I certainly don’t want them outside when I’m not home.

You shouldn’t leave your dog in his crate after a day at work just because you don’t want to deal with him. That said, sometimes I will put mine in their crates if I have to run around in the kitchen getting dinner ready for a get together and I don’t want them underfoot (but that’s only for 15-20 minutes). Usually they go outside (I have a fenced yard), but they seem to prefer their crates if the weather is really nasty.

My dogs also have large crates. I bought the largest size and I have shelties. So they have ample room to stretch their legs.

In addition, if you have to put your dog in a crate for traveling, it helps that their already adjusted to them and not traumatized by being stuck in a box added to the stress of travel.

4

Crate training, as it’s called, is quite useful for housebreaking as the theory goes that a dog will not “soil” its den. Dogs quickly ask to go outside that way.

I train service dogs and working dogs of all sorts. Crates are a godsend - the dogs find it’s their safe spot if they want to take a nap or get away from an annoying visitor, and feel safe when you’re out for a few hours.

I have highly intelligent dogs who get into trouble if they’re left to their own devices. In their crates, they get kickass chew toys (like Kongs stuffed with goodies) and think it’s the grestest thing since sliced milkbones.

As for dogs having access to the outdoors while you’re away, that’s great if you’re in a rural area, not so great if you’re in an urban area. I would rather keep my dogs safe. Plus, with working dogs, or show dogs, or whatever, the number of THEFTS of “cool lookin’ dogs” is actually pretty alarming… why just near here, not long ago, someone I know has had her aussie stolen from their fenced in DOG RUN at the back of their house.

Crate training isn’t cruel or torture, if it’s applied properly. A dog who is crated 10 hours a day is obviously not having a great life. When used properly, the crate is a safe spot for a pup or a dog to chill out in while you’re out, and they learn to looooove it.

My toller, who has some separation anxiety issues, threw a fit last fall when we had retired his crate. He went into fits when I would leave… we thought he was actually in pain, or sick… turns out it was pure anxiety. We brought his crate back. He’s been great since. In fact, I’m in the computer room now, where his crate sits, and he’s in his “box”, sleeping soundly. He LOVES his crate so badly that we need to take it everywhere with us. it’s his security blanket! He stores his bones and chews in there and the other two dogs won’t go steal them (because that’s HIS house, you see…)

Anyway - to each his own, I suppose.

Another upside to crates is transportation - if you have a van, it’s safer to put your dogs in their crates to ride from point A to point B. With SAR dogs, it’s nice to be able to pop them into a crate (where they are safe and FEEL safe) while we set up base camp and get our briefings before heading out…

Anyway.

I usually wean my dogs off their crates when they are older and not so inclined to destroy things while I’m out. With Valen, however, it’s clear he NEEDS his for his own sanity, so he still gets his crate. With Spanky, who has housebreaking issues, it’s nice to come home and not have to pick up poop and piss off the floor, ya know?

Elly

5

I love crate training, it only took a few weeks before my puppy was housetrained. Another good reason (to add to the great reasons already listed), my crate-trained dog is now old. A few years ago he had a severe back end nerve problem. When he was well enough to come home from the vet’s, I was instructed to keep him confined, so he wouldn’t re-injure himself. Hard to do when you have two other very playful dogs doing their normal “let’s play” routine. Since Bandit was already crate trained, it was a perfect place for him while he recovered. I would have hated to try and train an injured dog to stay in the crate - since he was already used to the crate it was no problem.

I also think about stuff like evacuation in case of a fire or other natural disaster…in a situation like that having the dogs used to being in a crate would be a lifesaver.

We have a large fenced yard, but I would never leave my dogs out there all day unsupervised.

6

The kindest thing you can do for a dog is train it so that it can be included in the family without any problems. Crating is the best way in the world to do that, because the best way to train a dog early and thoroughly is by exerting total control over it in the early months of life.

Dogs are by nature den animals. Dens represent safety to them, so they adapt pretty readily. The complaining they do when you begin has less to do with their unhappiness at being “caged” than it does with being separated from * you, * since they are also pack animals that feel safer with their pack than separated from it, and you are the pack. If you could get into the crate with them, they’d be perfectly fine with it.

Many dogs, as has been described, develop an attachment to their crate and desire it throughout their lives. Some grow out of it. My dog continued to be crated at bedtime until about the age of 18 months, and since then the only time I still use it is in the car. He might still want it except that he really has gotten too big for it.

By the way, crating only works for housebreaking if combined with proper training and responses outside the crate. Which means that the puppy has to go straight from the crate outdoors, and is then watched every single moment it is free in the house. You do not leave a non-housebroken dog to wander the house out of your eyesight, ever. Extreme vigilence for a short while creates a lifetime of good behavior.

7

Another dog owner who crates here. I live in an apartment, and don’t have a yard, but even if I did I’d crate while I was away, at least until the dog was old enough to be trusted around the house. And I’d never leave my dog unsupervised in a yard–I’d be too worried about theft or escape.

Crating results in less anxiety for me (I don’t have to worry about her chewing an electrical cord, for exampe) and for the dog–it becomes a comfortable, secure place for them. IMHO (and the opinion of many experts), crating in and of itself isn’t cruel, unless the dog is confined for excessive periods of time (more then, say, 9 hours) without a chance to relieve itself or some kind of stimulation. I don’t believe it’s reasonable to argue “Would you like to be in a cage for 9 hours?” because, frankly, I’m not a dog.

I think the most important factor in “dog happiness” is how much time it gets to have positively interacting with its family–a dog that’s in a crate all day, and then gets a play session, and a walk, and some obedience work and then gets to sleep near the owner at night is gonna be a much happier animal then the typical suburban dog that gets played with by the kids once a week and spends the rest of the time exiled in the yard.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned (except tangentially by Elenfair) is that the breed of the dog can make a big difference in how it responds to longish periods of time in the crate. Some breeds (e.g., many of the sighthounds) deal with solitude much better then others.

Also, my comments apply to a dog that’s past the youngest puppy stages, i.e., has developed bladder control and feels comfortable in its crate and home.

8

I’m a big fan of crate training, especially during the housebreaking phase and the chew-everything-in-sight phase. Gizmo is seldom confined to his crate now, but it is his spot and he spends a lot of time there voluntarily.

Here’s a useful link on crate training originally from the usenet group rec.pets.dogs.

9

Both of my dogs are also crate trained, although they are no longer crated during the day. However, they are confined to one room while we’re gone.

In addition to what has already been mentioned, another benefit of crate training that people often overlook is having your dog accustomed to confinement if he has to undergo surgery or extensive medical treatment. If he is already crate trained, that will be one less thing to be stressed about at the vet. And if your dog undergoes orthopedic surgery for a torn cruciate ligament or hip dysplasia, he will have to be confined for several months during recovery.

I’ll second what Elenfair said about working and performance dogs. I compete with one of my dogs in obedience, agility, and tracking, and I cannot imagine doing all those activities without a crate handy.

10

Just a slightly different viewpoint.

I’ve never done crate training in 15 years of having dogs (malamute and husky). In all that time, the only damage has been one bite into one flip-flop. Both dogs have had cruciate ligament surgery (I’m in week four with the current dog). All I ever had to do was put stuff on the couch to keep them from sleeping there until they were healed.

Now I also do a lot of training with my dogs, they get to go hiking 5-10 hours a week and get 2-3 walks daily. In the summer, they can go in and out of the house to the yard at will.

In Montana, crating is far from the norm, except for actual working hunting dogs of the springer/spaniel line. Outdoor kennels are not uncommon.

Whistlepig

BTW, I have nothing against crating, so long as it’s done properly.

11

And that’s the important thing - properly crate training. A crate is not somewhere to put a dog you don’t have time for, or for punishment.

Our two-year old Mastiff loves her crate, and has been sleeping in it since she was seven weeks old. By the time she was ten weeks old, she was housebroken, but continued to be crated while we were out (I’m a stay-at-home parent, so it wasn’t like we were all working 8 hour days) until she was almost a year old. Now she sleeps in her crate at night - with the door open for the past year - and naps there occasionally during the day, as well as hiding out there when there are too many people around for her.

12

Thanks for the replies. I have been around dogs all my life, though currently not a dog owner (due to renting).

I have never heard of crating before being here. My families dogs were always “house pooches”, when we all went off to work, school they had the run of the house. When we came home they got walkies/catchies/fun time. They learnt that at home time was sleeping time…well unless they had very tidy secret dog parties.

Yes they all went through the chewy puppy stage but that is how they learnt what not to do. Toilet training is a dog owners bascic challenge. It means putting up with a bit of mess but it is easily solved (same for cats) most dogs would rather die then pee in the house.

I can not see how “crating” is a fair thing to do to a dog and I say this after having an 18 yr old blind dog that never moved off the couch :slight_smile: but she chose to be on the couch and was never restricted ever…and that lil bitch ate more then her value in shoes as a pup (always just one shoe, dogs are not stupid).

13

My mother in law has long kept chihuahuas in milk crates.

Now, these crates don’t have a door - she set them on their sides - so they are the sort of portable kennel crates or large cages I hear call “crates”. But they serve a similar function. Chihuahuas are very small dogs, and when a lot of big people are around the dogs can retreat to their little dens and feel safe while observing what’s going on. They sleep in the crates by choice. When the MIL travels she can take the crates with her so the animals always have a familar protected place.

I agree, properly done, crating can be a good thing - the crate/cage must be an appropriate size for the animal, must be kept clean, food and water available, toys, etc… And certainly the animal should not be confined for long periods of time.

Growing up, our family dogs were not crated (we hadn’t heard the term, in fact), but most of them adopted a spot under a side table or chair or a bed as “their” spot where they would retreat if nervous, threatened, or frightened. Dogs seek out a hidey-hole for safety and security. So, really, if it’s done *properly * it’s in keeping with their instincts.

14

Is it an American thing though?

Any non American craters?

Seems like indoor cats was an American thing. Is crated dogs American too?

Is it a way of life/societal thing?

15

Alternative names might be “kennels” or “pens”

I suspect the trend is greatest in the city and denser suburbs where there are hazards not faced by rural pets - including dog thieves and nasty people that might cause harm to a dog left unattended in a fenced yard.

The idea of a portable container for animals is nothing new - the dog show crowd have been using them a long time. Not to mention requirements for animals traveling on planes and trains and busses.

16

Actually, they learn what not to do faster if you can catch and correct them in the act. They learn not to chew things that aren’t theirs faster if they’re redirected every time than if they’re only redirected sometimes. (Plus it saves on shoes, cords, sunglasses, and underpants. Not to mention my parents’ carpeting, Dad’s recliner, and a friend of mine’s couch.) Same for house training. If they get put out every time, and there’s nowhere to “hide” it, they’re going to learn faster than if they only get put out sometimes and they don’t have to be right next to dhe mess. (Again, easier on the carpeting and less cleanup.) Also, a lot of dogs would much prefer to piss in the floor than go outside when it’s wet or snowy or dark outside.

How is it unfair to provide a dog with a safe place to hang out and suck on chew toys when you’re not around? Would it be better to leave the dog outside all day in the 95 degree heat, or the snow or the rain, or where she could be stolen, shot, or poisoned or escape from the fence and get run over? Would it be better to leave a chew-happy puppy with unrestricted access to electrical cords, trash, and all sorts of other things that could be toxic to her or choke her or cause bowel obstruction or that she could fall off and sustain head trauma or a broken bone? Is letting your dog inadvertantly kill itself more fair to it than confining it to a safe place to nap and relax until you get home?

17

I read the OP as “creating dogs??” and began concocting ways my little pretties could take over the world.

18

[QUOTE=calm kiwi]
Seems like indoor cats was an American thing.

[QUOTE]

Sorry to fly off topic, but doesn’t New Zealand have a problem with domestic cats killing native birds, including endangered ones?

19

Dogs are den animals. When they aren’t hunting with the pack, they like being in their own closed in space.

They are also pack animals. When they are separated from the pack and NOT in a den, they feel anxious.

People who oppose crate training just don’t understand what’s going on. It’s not about locking a dog in a small crate to punish it. The dog doesn’t feel trapped or confined. The dog feels AT HOME. Comfortable. Safe. The crate smells like the dog, and only like the dog. There are no intruder smells.

We’ve always crate trained our dogs. Without exception they all loved their crates and went in them willingly whenever they felt tired or stressed.

Crate training allows you to travel with your dog, as well. We take our dog with us on road trips and to visit relatives. We set up the crate in the bedroom with us, and the dog sleeps with us in safety. If we couldn’t crate the dog, we’d have to board it. Which do you think the dog would prefer?

20

We’re on the other end of this. While I’ve no problems with crate training per say, Tino won’t go near one. He freaks out in them, for whatever reason. We couldn’t use a crate to train him–we just needed patience and understanding and a really good sense of humor. (Baby gates worked ok for him.)

Willow, our new dog, used to like crates when we got her. But then I guess she hated being crated while Tino was free, so now she hates them, too (craps all over them while she’s in one. So much for not soiling where they sleep.) And she jumps over baby gates, too, so now we just give them run of the house and hope for the best. Tino is perfectly behaved and except for an accident once a week or so, Willow is fine, too. (Finally!) And they love playing all day. We don’t come home to anything being chewed–though of course we remove temptation from them by dog-proofing the house.

So some people swear by crates, but they don’t always work and you can train them without them. (I think it just takes a lot longer.) I think it depends on the dog.