This is not comparable to asking for a female-only doctor. Our society accepts segregation along gender lines in a way that we do not accept along racial lines: sexual privacy and modesty are considered acceptable motives, and someone who is uncomfortable being naked in front of a member of the opposite sex gets their wishes honored.
For the same reason, bathrooms and changing rooms are routinely segregated along gender lines; an establishment that segregated them by race would get in all kinds of trouble.
Had the husband insisted on a female doctor, there wouldn’t be an outcry. Even if he’d insisted on a male doctor for his wife, there wouldn’t be an outcry.
It’s also different from insisting on not having students treating you: there’s a rational motive behind such a request, inasmuch as students will be less experienced than full doctors.
That’s very different from insisting on a doctor who conforms to certain racial or religious criteria. A hospital simply should not honor such requests: they should pretend the requests did not occur, and staff the patient as they normally would. If the patient or the husband makes a ruckus, they sould follow policy for handling disruptive patients or visitors.
And yes, I’d provide exactly the same advice if it were a black patient insisting on no white doctors, or a Jewish patient insisting on no Muslim doctors, or an Atheist patient insisting on no religious doctors.
Why is this news? I’m curious as to how many patients requested that they not have an “Iranian/Arabian/Muslim” doctor after 9-11? You know what? It may suck and seem like a real shitty thing to do, but it’s the patients’ right to make such a request, and it’s the hospital’s obligation to comply unless it is absolutely impossible. If a doctor feels that the most qualified member of his staff doesn’t fill the requirements, they can argue the case and try to change the patient’s opinion, but if they still refuse, it’s on the patient’s head if they don’t get the best quality service.
I’d still like to think that no hospital would be hard up for qualified employees of any race, so that the quality of service is the best it could be no matter what race/gender/ethnicity the attendant is.
Still, I don’t see why so many people are getting such a hard on over this case. The guy’s a fucking bigot, so what? Tell me where it is stated anywhere in any law that it is illegal for anyone to hold any prejudice against any person for whatever reason? People hate. Boo-hoo. A doctor’s job is to take care and treat people, whether they’re Mother Theresa or Stalin. It’s the medical staff’s job to do their best for the client, and if that means catering to their wacked out, racist or segragationalist demands, then tough noogies. The request didn’t effect other patients from what I can tell, and the baby was delivered all nice and happy, so job well done by the staff as far as I’m concerned. Once this guy leaves, their problems are over with him, and they’ll just have to deal with someone else’s silly demands. It’s not the first case they’ve had of this, I’m sure, and I’ll bet it won’t be their last.
The price we pay for our freedoms is that we give others the same leeway to define their freedoms as we’d demand for ourselves.
If Nazis can march in Skokie, these assholes can demand a white doctor. Of course, the hospital could have refused, and let the couple decide whether to stay or find another hospital that would accomodate them, since it was not an emergency. In an emergency situation, I think the hospital should have more discretion to accept or reject such a demand.
What if there aren’t any white folks on duty tonight? Does the Hospital have to go hire some, right now? My own shift has exactly one white guy on it. Me. Does Joe Klux have a right to demand that I alone take care of his family member? Sorry Joe, but that made me sick, and I am headed home, now.
There is no way this man has a legal right to demand this hospital provide race specific help, which they are forbidden to have hired in the first place.
Tell him you haven’t got any, sorry. If he leaves, it’s his problem, and the police can remove him if he becomes abusive.
If I recall correctly, there was an episode of ER where Dr. Benton goes to treat an elderly black women, who is complaining about waiting for four hours. THEN the kicker:
She asks for a white doctor.
Benton says, “Fine. But you’ll have to wait another four hours.”
Give them what they want-but don’t make it convenient for them. Basically, they’re screwing themselves over.
What if the request to not have a black doctor was because he thought Affirmative Action let less qualified blacks through medical school. Would that be considered a rational motive?
I think the patient should be allowed to request any stipulations they want. The Hospital should also act uppon those stipulations to the best of its ability. Unless the patient is somehow unable to make decisions for themself, they should be able to ask whatever they wish.
It is part of freedom that people should be free to do and ask for that which we deem wrong or immoral. If a patient wishes for only lesbian catholic doctors and nurses, they may ask, and the Hospital should provide as far as possible for that request.
Would it be reasonable to request no Chinese Doctors?
It seems obvious that this should be not allowed. but…
What if the patient truly was phobic of such people?
There may be a case that a Hospital will be allowed to refuse admittance to someone who makes awkward and offensive requests, this would be done in the formal notice being given to that person that the said hospital will no longer accept them for routine medical procedures, and will refuse to honor any similar requests if the patient is brought to the hospital in an emergency. This occuring after the patient has given their reason for their action.
Society may accept gender discrimination, but that’s not real life when it comes to hospital practice.
The doctor on call is the doctor on call. Asking for another doctor mitaay or may not be a large request, based on how many are on at that time and how many are currently busy with other patients.
One does not walk into a hospital expecting to be treated by the on-call staff and also expect to have much of a choice in the matter.
Anyone who is that particular would do themselves a favor by employing a private practicioner with hospital privileges who is willing to come at their request.
Because it doesn’t seem to be based on reliable knowledge, but prejudice and stereotypes. If the patient has no reason for suspecting thus, and is just ASSUMING that the doctor was only hired for his skin color, then it’s not rational.
If no one has to pay for having a baby, does that mean the docs in Canada are being forced to work for free?
Why dont you amend your statement to what it really is;
“Im also glad I dont have to pay to have a baby. Im glad everyone else pays for it for me. Which means I dont have the right to make silly, or any, demands at all.”
re: whether Affirmative Action means less-qualified doctors are practicing:
That’s not a motive I would respect, were I the authority in this case. Student doctors are, by virtue of being students, less-qualified than practicing doctors. Unless you’re the writer of TimeCube, there’s little to dispute there.
Claiming that black doctors are less qualified by virtue of Affirmative Action is a statement with no evidence behind it, and is therefore on par with any other absurd, groundless claim a person might want to make.
A patient that came to me with a peer-reviewed study showing that black obstetricians have higher fatality rates among their patients than white obstetricians would get my attention. Failing that, however, I’d treat the request with the contempt it deserves.
The guy had a legal right to make the request. The hospital had a moral obligation to ignore the request, and throw the guy out on his ear if he attempted to disrupt treatment of a patient.
x-ray vision If you are going to consider the possibility that affirmative action may have helped unqualified blacks get to their positions, shouldn’t you also make sure that none of the degreed staff attended the same school as their parents (otherwise unqualified people could have been addmiteed through alumni preferences, which IIRC affect a lot more people than does affirmative action). Also verify that nepotism played no part in the hiring of any of the personnel.
x-ray vision If you are going to consider the possibility that affirmative action may have helped unqualified blacks get to their positions, shouldn’t you also make sure that none of the degreed staff attended the same school as their parents (otherwise unqualified people could have been addmiteed through alumni preferences, which IIRC affect a lot more people than does affirmative action). Also verify that nepotism played no part in the hiring of any of the personnel.
I didn’t say unqualified MMI, I said less qualified. If you’re correct in your recollection (which I doubt) that unqualified people are getting admitted to medical school through alumni preferences than through Affirmative Action, then yes, I would be concerned, as we all should be.
If African Americans are getting admitted to medical school with a quality of grades and/or qualifications that they might not have gotten into medical school with had they been white (which is happening thanks to Affirmative Action) then yes, I am concerned also, as we all should be.
Say I’m a doctor who graduated from a predominately black medical school, where AA wouldn’t be at play.
Would someone still be justified in refusing my help based on your assumption, x-ray vision?
If I’m willing to cast doubt on all black doctors simply because of AA, then I’d have to be willing to cast a similar doubt on whites based on their history of unfair priviledge and power. I’d also have to cast doubt on white women doctors (also beneficieries of AA) and doctors from underrepresented regions of the country who are admitted to diversify classrooms. Not to mention, I’d have doubts about the individual merit of doctors from rich families. How do you know they aren’t legacy babies who are incompetents posing as know-it-alls?
You don’t know. Nor do you know if a black doctor is a beneficiary of AA, let alone an under qualified beneficiary. Truth of the matter: you aren’t going to know unless you test all the doctors. Seems like you might as well give all of them the benefit of the doubt if you want to be reasonable.
I know you and I probably agree on this, , monstro, but I’d point out that the problem is x-ray’s assumption. Reasonable requests based on data may be considered; unreasonable requests with no evidence backing them up should be dismissed.