Creation vs. Evolution

Great Debates
81

Speaking of questions…

Why didn’t God just magically teleport all the living things he wanted to survive to his “home planet of Kolob” during the flood and then blink them back afterwards? Or perhaps a better question would be, Why didn’t God just teleport all the living things he wanted to die to the Moon or Jupiter or the Sun and just be done with it?

The biblical “Flood” story makes the claim that God is omnipotent indescribably ludicrous, and as a result is far more blasphemous than just about anything I can think of!

82

WHOOSH! Right up the center part of my hair…:o

83

Ambushed…

Although I was tired and it was late, I think that the arguement I make is equally as potent on some level as any other one, here’s why…

Even a decision not to decide is ultimately a decision, using that logic, an argument against the human race being able to know it’s true origins seems to be a valid one. If creationists are correct, we’re only able know PRECISELY what “God” wants us to know. If the evolutionists are right, we haven’t evloved far enough (mentally at least) to know everything about our predecessors. If I’m right, the two sides go back to their corners until they can come out with a decent answer that will convince even the smartest person from the other camp, that they are correct.

The hitch in that get-a-long; one of those arguments requires rock solid, honest-to-goodness, no bones about it, right-there-in-front-of-your-eyes, proof. The other requires you to place blind faith in the programs and ideas of man, programs which even if one should spend a lifetime studying, can never know them completely.

Thus, une tâche impossible, is born.

—What Would Scooby Doo?

84

Proponents of evolution theory are already in their corner, so to speak. I don’t see many scientists saying that people need to put a sticker in their Bible noting that the Bible is only one possible theory. If the creationists stuck to religion and stayed out of science, there would be no problem.

85

I haven’t read all of this thread in it’s entirety because, really, what’s the point? I’ve heard all of the creationist nonsense many, many times before. True scientific statements must be falsifiable. I don’t mean falsifiable in the sense that we necessarily have the equipment, technology, or training to verify immediately whether or not a given statement is true. Rather, the statement must be formulated in such a way as to allow it to be false. If I said “String theory predicts X”. Even if we didn’t have the capability to test X right now as long as it could, definitively be tested at some point in the future it is still a scientific statement. Creationism utterly fails on this point because there is no statement regarding it’s truth that can be falsified.

If a creationist said “Creationism is true because of X” and I showed that X actually wasn’t true then the response would invariably be “Well, God could do it”. That’s the challenge Nomadic_One. Show me a statement that creationism makes that, if it were false, would disprove creationism. Or anyone! I’ll accept such a statement regardless of it’s origin. Tell me. I’m all ears. If you can’t provide a falsifiable claim of creationism then it can’t be science.

86

Doc Nickel wrote, a day or so ago:

Mycobacterium leprae does not live in aardvarks. You are thinking of armadillos.

87

Here’s a good question for you, Nomadic_One:

Why is the moon made of rock?

88

Nomadic_One you messed up. I haven’t been here very long, but I know one thing for sure. If you plan to post something radical such as this you better have so damned good cites to back it up. The bible just doesn’t cut it.

BTW, one good thing came out of this thread. The quote of the new millenium!

I found this to be hilarious. In fact, it’s my new signature on another message board.

89

Nomadic_One has kind of disappeared from this thread. I wonder if he’s still working on Ben’s stumpers.

90

The last I saw of Nomadic_One was a thread that he posted wanting to know the origin of the name “Straight Dope.”

91

I always get my lunchmeats mixed up. :smiley:

92

Were getting there. Ben is your email address updated? Which one should I use? :slight_smile:

Im working on this too…Creation vs. Evolution 2.0 should be out hopefully soon…if I dont run out of sugar/caffine. :confused: Im getting it. Lord willing. :slight_smile:

93

…Tonight was one of those thinking, philisophical nights for me. I think I came up with some conclusions that I had known, just didnt want to admit them.

Im sorry if I have tried to sound superior in any way. I am a human with normal intelligence, and because of my age probally lesser then most on the board. I realized that the battling with words and trying to prove supurior intellect isnt going to get me anywhere. Even if I knew where I was trying to go. Well Ben I have looked into most of your questions and at this time I have to say I dont know the answers to them. I will continue to look for answers and hopefully find them for you. But as of now I dont know the answers to them or how they exactly relate to Creation. (I’m not the greatest with science) Sometimes you just have to tell the truth without masking it with pretty words and this is one of those times. As for the other science questions I am not exactly sure about them either. I would like to ask this though as a Christian, to a un-believer of any kind. What besides answering these questions would it take for me to show you to show you Gods love? If there is any way please tell me. The only thing I can think of would be to show you God’s love through me to you. Because love is something that doesnt have to be tied in with religion as its tangable for anything, I love my…computer…Saturdays…etc. That is a bit of a feat through a message board, especially one that alot of times has hot issues. But I will try. Again I am sorry and I will continue to look, but I am not into battling words, that might sound a lilttle odd in a religious debate on a “great debate” board but it is true if I have to drag God out into words I would rather not. So please bear with me as I look for answers.

"Give me a reason for life and for death
And a reason for drowning while I hold my breath
Something to laugh at a reason to cry
With everyone hopeless and hoping for something to hope for
Yeah, with something to hope for

Could it be true?
Can life be new?
Could it be all that I am is in You?
Could it be this?
Could it be bliss?
Can it be You?
Can it be You?"

-Switchfoot

(You meaning God)

94

I respect you realizing that you don’t have the answers to those questions, but the bottom line is that when it comes to “proof” there isn’t any factual data to back it up. Other than showing us the love of god, which is a roundabout way of saying have faith, there are no scientific answers.

95

To my surprise, it seems I’m also called to show God’s love and the effect my faith has had on my life. Since I’ve been known to grumble that if I have to tell you I’m a Christian I’m doing a lousy job of it, this is not something I planned on doing. Talking about Creationism and saying, in effect, you must accept this or be an immoral atheist, is not the way to go about it. I cannot accept that a document which contradicts itself and has passed through over a millenia of translators is literally true in every jot and tittle. God requires that we love Him with our mind as well as our hearts. Stilling my questioning mind and accepting something as true simply because someone says so isn’t doing that. Remember the parable of the talents – stilling my curiousity and love of logic and learning is the equivalent of burying my talent in the ground.

So, I repeat my questions to you. Does your friend believe that one cannot be a Christian and accept evolution? If so, why?

Respectfully,
CJ

96

Speaking as a nontheist, I’ll first ask, why do you feel you need, or want, or must show me, him, her, them or anyone, this “Love”? Are you worried for my soul? Worried I’m not happy, or I’m maladjusted or somehow morally bankrupt without a Guiding Hand?

Second, just what is “God’s Love”?

His love for mankind? Dude’s been gone two thousand years and His so-called “holy land” is one of the most disputed and dangerous places on Earth. His factions have split into a hundred sects, all of whom feel the others are Damned, and some of whom feel it’s their Divine Duty to kill some of the others.

You’d think that if there’s any reason to make God poke his head back in the lab and say “Hey wait a minute…” it’d be people deliberately blowing themselves up with nail-studded bombs intentionally trying to kill members of another religion, in His name.

His love for each individual? Diabetes, mongoloidism and colorectal cancer are funny ways of showing that love. To say nothing of car accidents, drownings, heart attacks, and drive-by shootings. PolyCarp states he’s sure God intervened when he was having a heart attack- Okay, great, but where was God when that hiker was having to saw his own arm off with a dull knife?

God loves us so much he sent his only Son to die for us? Besides not making a whole lot of sense to start with (born to a virgin, ignored 'til he’s about 30 or so, gets into trouble with the law, asks pop why he didn’t help him in what’s admittedly a crucial hour of need- no pun intended- Dad lets 'im die, brings him back a couple of days later- and this did what for us, again?) we’re told that even with that sacrifice, we’re still sinners even from the moment we’re born, and only following a certain set of rules can we hope not to suffer in hell for an eternity.

If, of course, we can just figure out which one is the right set of rules to follow. And the Big Guy, loving dude he is, ain’t giving out any clues, even though getting the wrong answer- and you gotta admit the deck’s stacked against you- means an eternity of torment and pain.

97

Nomadic_One, I believe that you are sincere in your faith, so I am not trying to pick on you. I believe in God, and God’s love, although we do not share the same faith (I’m a Hindu). I also believe in evolution.

See, the thing is, that your OP is a bunch of half-truths, obfuscations, and lies. I am guessing you probably did not intend it to be so, but it is. For example:

This is at best a misunderstanding of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. But given how many times it’s been repeated, I think it’s an outright lie. The 2nd law refers to closed systems, and the Earth is not a closed system.

Trying to convince people of God’s love using lies is, well, in my mind, heinous. What happens when people actually find out the truth? What will they think then? Will they keep a belief in God when they find out they have been lied to?

There have been many threads about evolution on these message boards. There are also many Straight Dope archive articles that cover many of the things you posted in your OP. Yet, you did not take the time to search for these threads or to read these articles. Your arguments have been hashed out over and over on these boards, and yet you have brought them out again as if they were new. Is this not disingenuous? You did not take the time to learn about the other side, yet you expect everyone to accept your side of the argument?

I would say, that if you really want to convince people of your version of God, then read the other threads, read the archives, find out exactly what the refutations for these tired arguments are, and then don’t ever use these arguments again. Because these arguments are just obfuscations and deceit, and the way to God can never be through such things.

98

Is there an ‘Ask The Hindu’ thread? if not, would you consider starting one?

99

I’m not sure I’m qualified to do this. There are several distinct branches of Hinduism, and I don’t have complete and complex knowledge of all of them.

When a thread is started about Christianity on this board, we have people weighing in with Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant points of view. We also have historians and scientists contributing to the discussion. I certainly couldn’t give such a well-rounded viewpoint by myself, and I haven’t seen that many people on these boards who say they are Hindu, so I’m afraid that the information that would be presented would be incomplete.

100

Poor Nomadic…this is a real SMDB lynching! Cool off guys.
But on a serious note, this has been a very educational thread. Really enjoyed it. However i am taking bets that it is soon going to turn into either an Israel-palestine thread or a was the film A.I any good thread. Gut feeling…