Not so. The Indidels site merely looks at this whole Christianity business from a skeptical viewpoint. Which is all we should be doing, no?
I think not. To do that, you have to frame the Christian god into some scientific hypothesis. By definition, the Christian god is singular and non-repeatable. Christians do not accept any falsification of their god.
So you can’t.
What he meant by “evolution is fact” is there are now observed instances of evolution, even at that “macro” level. That is, speciation.
I don’t even understand why the creationists (including the ID’ists) haven’t folded. They kept saying it was impossible for evolution to produce new species, but this has been observed, even repeatedly.
So what if we don’t know how it works? It is a fact.
Evolution is both a fact and a theory.
Is it possible to search (scientifically) for God? Perhaps, if you don’t jump to the conclusion that “God” must mean “the Christian God”.
Here’s my original thread on the topic at the PP, along with links to the usenet threads in which people discuss their ICR experiences. (Incidentally, you can see why I raised the subject in response to GOM’s comments about the Infidels, given his lack of concern about the ICR’s dishonesty.)
http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6938
If you like, you can read the ICR messageboard yourself. Last time I checked, it was just a bunch of YEC’s chuckling about how stupid evolution is. (After all, that’s all they’re allowed to talk about.)
I agree that for a vast majority of the time religion gets in the way of science (in terms of ID research and the like). I think it’s a shame. Scientists should be looking for the answers-not the answers they want.
I have no problem with theistic evolution either (being as I accept evolution, and am religious).
I do have a problem though, with these religious men/women fudging their data; From the start they label themselves as “christians” (not all mind you) and then they go and lie about the data, results, and tests. That doesn’t make religion look very good IMHO.
Okay, let’s throw the “Christian” out of it. Do you think that any tests are possible, currently?
I’m not so sure.
I have a question for the Old Earth Creationists out there. Given that a day is any amount of arbitrary length that you wish, there are still problems in the order of creation as described in Genesis 1. IIRC, it states that plants are created before the sun. How do you resolve this without invoking allegory?
Heck, Genesis 1 also states that “evening” and “morning” came, three times each, before the creation of the sun.
Even if you’re going to claim that the Hebrew word usually translated as “day” means something other than 24 hours, are the Hebrew words translated as “evening” and “morning” in Genesis 1 ever translated as anything other than “evening” and “morning”?
If you’re positing that God created the universe, sun, moon and plant life, you can also posit that the light He created on Day 1 was sufficient to sustain plant life until Sol came around.
Zev Steinhardt
Moderator’s Note:
Be advised that the site linked to in that post may spawn pop-ups, and there’s been at least one report of “adult” content pop-ups that may try to install nasty stuff on your computer. (All I’ve seen so far are the usual “credit repair” and “find your old schoolmates” ads.) So, if you do visit that site (a militantly anti-Christian message board called “Chri$tianity: Bogus Beyond Belief”, in case you’re wondering), don’t just click “yes” to everything you see, the way you do when you visit this site.
Sorry about that, I have pop-up stopper and I’ve never noticed the “adult” pop-ups. My apologies.
Thanks for the warning. I won’t be going there…
That is one of the unfortunate sides of the internet.
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Good.
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Flattery will get you everywhere.
(Actually, from what little I have seen of it I would tend to agree. Some of the language is a little rough for me though. .02)
Ah, but the question becomes: What rule is God following? If there’s an exception, what makes acting differently in those circumstances morally and/or ethically correct? Can God make exceptions at will?
Yes, He can.
He can tell you don’t violate the Sabbath. He can then turn around and tell you that you can violate the Sabbath to save a life.
He can tell you not to marry your brother’s wife. He can then turn around and tell you that if your brother dies childless then you can.
Zev Steinhardt
No. I criticize it for what I have heard about the behavior there.
Do you post there? And if so, are creationists welcome there?
Good. You’re honest about your current view. That’s why I posted two links. You might learn something by taking a second look.
Your choice, of course.
God bless.
But is God acting in accordance with a higher morality (another set of rules)?
If these exceptions aren’t arbitrary, then there must be a ‘higher’ and ‘truer’ moral/ethical code, and there’re really no exceptions to the rules. It’s just that we don’t know what the real rules are.
If the exceptions are arbitrary, then we have to answer the question of why we should follow the rules in the first place…