Is the dispute “creationists vs evolutionists” also going on in Europe ? I haven’t seen or found anything on this subject in the media or on the web (I don’t claim I’ve read or seen all media). Are all Europeans adherent to evolution ? Do they care ? What about Australia, New Zealand ?
There’re a couple of private Church run schools in Britain that teach creationism in their science lessons. There was a piece on BBC Radio 4 about them a few months back. No cite sorry. There’s no real wider debate about the issue, just fringe sorts doing their own thing.
A handful of small religious sects in Norway believe in Creationism of some form or another, and their private, sectarian schools teach this in place of evolution. However, these groups are much too small in number to have any impact on what’s taught in public schools. Norwegian public schools teach evolution, and there’s no real controversy about it. (We have plenty of other school controversies to keep us busy.)
A search on ‘creationist’ on the BBC news site turned up several articles, including this one.
this is a much more secular society than the USA. There is no equivalent of the ‘Religious Right’ here, or if there is then it’s so small that it’s just ridiculed and ignored.
There’s a, not terribly thorough, discussion of the limited European creationist movements in this old thread.
Fundies barely register on the religious radar here in NZ, and those that do are more of the mainstream Jehovah’s Witnesses types: I’m sure there are some real loons out there, but they keep to themselves. We’re far too secular a society for them to have any real impact anyway, certainly not in education or politics: there are a couple of mainstream Christian parties here, but they more preach the “family values” line and are ignored for their pains.
The closest we have to the US biblethumpers are a nasty little outfit called the Destiny Church, led by a mulleted televangelist called Brian Tamaki, who will probably end up in jail on fraud charges on day: they’re more hardcore on the “family values” {read gay-bashing} line, and are forever holding marches, which attract more jeerers than marchers: they’re trying to make political inroads, but are so widely loathed that they’ll never have any traction.
Fact is, most educated people just find the US obsession with Christianity to the point that it influences social policy and education, let alone mainstream politics, downright 19th century weirdness: fortunately, we inherited the English blithe lack of concern about matters spiritual.
We in Oz have a few wannabes who glance enviously across the Pacific at the hatred and ignorance their cousins-in-spirit have sown in the US. One bunch is the Hillsong church who run a new political party called Motherhood Statement, or Family First, or something like that.
For as long as it suits the PM-in-residence he will entertain their notions and happily pander to their agenda, all we can do is sit and quake. Little sign yet of them influencing education policy except in Queensland (Australia’s answer to Alabama, Georgia and Florida rolled into one) but it can only be a matter of time.
Befor reading an article about the creationists in the USA, it never occured to me that there could still be people rejecting the the theory of evolution. I asssumed these ideas had dissapeared during the begining of the 20th century.
And even after, until I began to use the internet, I assumed it was a fringe movement in the USA, not that it was seriously debated.
This to show how alien the concept was to me. Though there certainly are creationnists in France (I know at least one person who don’t “believe” in evolution, for unclear reasons. She’s not a religious fundamentalist), and probably some religious groups advocating it, I never hear/read about them. And there’s zero public debate on this topic.
I assume by the way that since france is a catholic country and probably also since the cultural exchanges are more limited, we’re more insulated from creationism than for instance the UK.
For what it’s worth, the opinion in Canada is much that expressed by the Europeans in the thread. One of our loopier Conservatives (formerly leader of the Canadian Alliance) is known as, and roundly ridiculed for being, creationist.
There are many uber-Catholics here but evolution isn’t an issue over here, it’s just accepted. There may be some creationists but if there are they have no lobby or voice.
The only time it was brought up in school was in a class that looked at beliefs from around the world.
You people are so very lucky. This issue is such a pain in the ass here, it is amazing.
A few months ago I heard two of my fellow police officers talking about a college course they were taking. They said that they had to write a paper about evolution, and they pretended to believe in evolution to pass the course.
I just stood there, dumbfounded. Of course, they just ignored me because they both know that I’m going to hell anyway.
There aren’t any visible ones here in Sweden. You may have heard of Reverend Åke Green, whose case pissed off Fred Phelps (he was jailed for making inflammatory statements against homosexuals; he later appealed and was acquitted) - if anyone here is a creationist, it’s him and his ilk, but I’m not sure even they are. It’s certainly not an issue in any sense of the word. There may be private schools where creationism is taught, but I sincerely doubt it. I also doubt they’d be allowed to keep going if this was brought to the attention of the authorities.
I did run into one creationist on a Swedish message board. The guy was like 16 years old. I was dumbstruck. He just didn’t fit into my worldview. I asked him some questions and he disappeared rapidly.
Are they Christian, or devotees of the Norse pantheon? I’m having fun picturing a Chick tract starring Thor and Odin: “No, Janey, the Valkyries didn’t take Timmy to Valhalla for an eternity of boozing, whoring and brawling because HE WASN’T SAVED.”
I was absolutely floored the first time I saw the gallup figures that 50% of Americans believe in creationism. It simply isn’t an issue here.
There aren’t any. They kicked out all the religeous nuts 300 years ago and they ended up over here.
I recall reading about one survey where they gave different versions to Americans and Europeans. The American results said x% of folks believed in angels while the Europeans found the question too ridiculous to even be considered for the survey.
That’s because we got the religious nuts, and you all got the criminals.
You lucky, lucky bastards.
Nah, we dumped 'em all on 'Stralia Bruce.
Guess who they voted for in 2004. 