And still David posts to this thread to bump it to the top…
I understand your frustration with Creationists who claim they have scientific facts to back up their beliefs. Let me just say right off the bat that I don’t have any real scientific proof for my belief that God created the Earth and it’s inhabitants.
I do not want Creationism taught in science class. It is not a proper place for it to be taught. If my religious beliefs are taught, then the class must give equal time to all religious beliefs, and that would keep them busy for much of the school year!
I don’t have trouble with Creationism or any other religion being taught in a comparative religion or similar type of class. As long as the teacher expresses no bias to any particular religion or atheism.
My plea to you is simple: let it drop. I find your constant bumping of this thread to the top of the board both obnoxious and tedious, especially when coupled with lines such as “And still no creationist has come forward with scientific proof”. This is sometimes accompanied with a sly jab such as “Not that I am surprised” or a followup from another poster mocking my beliefs. Hardly a Great Debate.
To me, it seems clear that you are violating one of the main rules governing this message board: don’t be a jerk. Close the thread and announce your “victory”.
If not, I suppose I will have to start a thread called “Evolutionists: Strut Your Stuff” in which I will call for Evolutionists to give religious proof for their beliefs. It would be a similar waste of board space.
I don’t expect much to happen as a result of this post, I just had to express my feelings, as well as the feelings of many Creationist lurkers (I’m sure there are some) who most likely feel the same way.
Psycho: You have missed the one important fact in that those who support Evolution Theory have never claimed it is a religion! On the other hand, some of the religious types who claim that Creationism is a science have attempted to label Evolution as another religion.
It is not DavidB being a jerk at the moment. It is you.
Psycho Pirate posted “I don’t expect much to happen as a result of this post, I just had to express my feelings, as well as the feelings of many Creationist lurkers (I’m sure there are some)who most likely feel the same way.”
I have been “lurking” for some time… now I guess this is as good a time as any to come out of the cyber-closet…
(getting up on soapbox)…
I have a few observations and opinions to make:
there is little point in trying to debate evolution vs. creation with creationists. Their beliefs are based on “faith”, not “evidence”, so no amount of logical evidence will change their minds. Therefore, what’s the point?
the “theory of evolution” doesn’t exist. As Stephen J. Gould has pointed-out, evolution is as well documented and established as any other scientific law or principle. We don’t talk about the “theory of a round earth” or “the theory that the earth rotates around the sun”. Evolution is a fact. There are, however, theories as to the mechanisms for evolution, i.e. “the theory of natural selection”.
In my daily life I refuse to discuss evolution vs. creation with people (see my first point above). Nonetheless, creationists still piss me off. By refusing to consider evidence and data they are purposely remaining ignorant. Even worse, by teaching creationism they are spreading ignorance, and that is unforgivable. Creationism should NOT be taught in schools, should NOT be treated as a legitimate concept and should NOT be tolerated.
…(getting off of soapbox after having jumped-in with both feet)…not that I’m opinionated or anything…
I think the key word in that statement is some. Those that label evolution as another religion believe that the facts behind evolution are so weak that the theory must be accepted on faith. They are not entirely incorrect, as the study of evolution has had its share of embarassing moments.
That was childish and uncalled for. Care to explain how I’m being a jerk? I’m not the one intentionally bumping up a dead thread to proclaim that Creationists haven’t put forth any scientific proof for Creationism. That behavior, to me, is extremely jerk-esque.
I’m not trying to start an argument. I just think that threads should live or die on their own merits. If nobody is posting to the thread, there is probably a good reason.
Rather unsurprisingly, Psycho Pirate has failed to present any evidence that evolution is about faith rather than about a level of proof equal to that for the atomic theory or heliocentrism.
I’ve heard of the religious assertion of Theistic Evolution, Psycho. Still doesn’t qualify as facts. See the many many many posts in this thread regarding that.
Now to your assertion that my statement concerning you is childish and uncalled for: You stated (see your post in question) that DavidB was ignoring the board rule of “don’t be a jerk.” I merely pointed out that you were making an unfounded assertion and thus that qualifies you as the jerk, not David. That it was uncalled for is yet another mistake on your part. Care to try for a hat trick?
Hmmm. Let’s see. Yes, it was sooooo far down. I mean, the last person had replied to it a whole 15 hours previously.
Give me a break. I posted to it when I got the chance, in order to point out exactly what I stated – that a lot more time had gone by and still nothing of worth from the creationists. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
Good. Then you have no reason to bother with this thread, do you?
As I have noted in other threads, I will let it drop when creationists stop making claims that they are scientific. Since that hasn’t happened yet, I won’t let it drop. Get it?
Hey, I have a suggestion – don’t read it. But for Gaud’s sake, man, quit whining about it!
And you know what? A few people would probably post to note how silly a request that is, and then it would go away because most of us wouldn’t bother to read it. Gosh, what an idea!
“Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection is, to my mind, the most beautiful in all of science.”
– Susan Blackmore, The Meme Machine
Psycho responded to somebody who said: “You have missed the one important fact in that those who support Evolution Theory have never claimed it is a religion!” And he said:
Yeah, and? It’s the Theistic part that’s religion, not the evolution part. So it pretty much has nothing to do with the question at hand.
Theistic evolution is creationism shotgun married to evolution. It’s basically taking evolution, snipping out a little proof here and there and slapping in “god made it”. THAT IS NOT EVOLUTION.
Basically put, Evolutionists did not call it a religion, CREATIONISTS did.
Actually Bored, a better description of “Theistic Evolution” does not involve the removal of any “proof”. It is more of a philosophical stance, whereby all the randomness produces what God wants because He wanted it to turn out that way. Rather like thanking Jesus for allowing you to win the lottery; it doesn’t affect the physical causes or explanations but it does add a spiritual dimension to existence.
Actually, they already shut down to new accounts a few days ago- I tried to get on so I could discuss creationism with ghoti. I must admit that I regret having spoken so harshly of him before- while I still dislike the “Relative Epistemic Virtuosity” title, he seems like a very nice guy.
-Ben
