Aw. Crap. I’ll have to look into that tonight.
Ooops, never mind. As I PM’d you, they work after all.
Changing the subject a bit, I took issue with Visa’s policy:
That’s not why I write “Check ID” on my card. I do it to try to remind them to check ANYTHING!!! The idea that I’m worried about someone copying my signature off my card is absurd! In the United States I’ve never, ever had someone actually compare the signature on my card to the one on the receipt. (As another poster mentioned, though, they do it all the time in China.) A thief could just scribble anything, it doesn’t matter. I’m just trying to get them to check the card against SOMETHING! Which, of course, as noted earlier, very rarely happens anyway.
When I worked retail, people who wrote SEE ID were always pleasantly surprised that I looked, and asked to see it. “Barely anyone ever asks”, they would nod, beaming thanks and security in their unstolen identities. I knew that technically they were wrong not to sign it, but I usually let it slide.
When someone presented a comletely blank card, I returned it to them and asked them to sign. It says “Not valid unless signed” right there on it, pal. One or two folks were very upset that I dared to ask for a valid form of payment, and not to risk my my employer becoming liable for my inaction.
Merchants aren’t supposed to ask for ID. There was a commercial not long ago where Bob Dole attempts to write out a check to a merchant (why else do you think he’s always holding that pen?) but has forgotten his wallet, and thus his ID, at home. So he whips out the convenience and ease of a Visa card, for which you don’t need to check ID. That was the whole point of the ad. So, am I wrong to be peeved when a merchant insists on checking ID for a credit card purchase? (This is more and more common in the US over the last few years.)
I have this little rebellious urge to say “No, you may not see my ID, and it is against the terms of your merchant agreement to ask.” But I’m sure that would cause more delay (odds of “I need to check with my manger” and angry customer behind me…40%?), confusion, and hard feelings that the usual response, which is to open up my wallet so they can glance at my license for half a second. It’s the little inconveniences that add up to this crushing weight of lost time in my life.
Is that the same for Amex? As I posted above, at GameStop, they ask for my ID even though my picture is on the back of my Amex.
As has been said, many people swipe their card at the point of purchase, so signing the back doesn’t really matter in those cases.
I work retail and I also shop. I’ve been on both sides of the purchase.
No as a merchant you can’t really ask for ID and I have been screamed at. I have also, in later retail jobs (involving chargebacks and fraud), dealt with customers dealing with stolen identity and…
Been screamed at…
There is no real concrete answer to this issue.
Not that I’ve seen anyway. It’s a battle between ease of payment and security. And it’s a battle.
The way I see it, if I’m a merchant, and I get a card that says “CHECK ID”, and I ask for the ID, and the person who gave me the card gets pissed, then I have to wonder if they’re the actual cardholder. After all, if the real cardholder is going to write “CHECK ID” on their credit card, they can’t rightfully get mad when a merchant asks for it. Depending on where you are, a fraudulent transaction can cost both the merchant and the bank money, so wouldn’t it be in SOMEBODY’S interest to make sure things are legit?
I have never understood the logic in leaving the signature panel blank. If your card is stolen then the thief can sign your blank card however they want and it will match perfectly to when they sign the receipt. What am I missing?
“American Express’s regulations do not explicitly prohibit minimum charges, but its policy is to discourage any merchant practices that create a “barrier to acceptance.” Amex does prohibit “discrimination” against the Amex card, however, so if a merchant has no minimum or maximum charge or require ID for Visa and MasterCard, the merchant may not discriminate against Amex by imposing a minimum or maximum charge or requiring ID.”
Report violations to:
American Express
Make a report online: Error
Phone Number: 1-800-528-4800 (International: 1-336-393-1111)
Mailing Address:…blahblah blah…
I work for a major US retailer (stores found in all 50 states) and spend most of my time there at a cash register. Been doing it for about four years. I’ve participated in thousands upon thousands of credit card transactions. The subject is very interesting, but in my experience totally theoretical. Speaking as a cashier…
- I don’t care whose credit card you’re using
- I don’t care what you’ve written on the back
- I don’t care what your signature looks like
This isn’t my personal approach. This is store policy. Now, be aware I’m talking about derived store policy, not explicit store policy. Derived store policy is what I know the policy to be, based on experience, with respect to what will get me in trouble and what will not. Since the store doesn’t get hit with the cost of fraudulent charges, they will not waste employee time or risk angering customers by having us be the credit card police. Letting somebody make a fraudulent charge has never and likely will never get me in trouble.
For contrast, if a customer tries to pay with a check, they will get the third degree from us, no matter how rude it seems. Because a bounced check will cost the store money directly. Paying with a bad check is, with respect to the store’s bottom line, exactly the same as shoplifting, only you hand the cashier a note saying HA HA FUCK YOU on the way out. So we scrutinize that form of third-party payment heavily. Again, derived store policy… If I let a hot check get by, I will get yelled at and possibly officially reprimanded.
The explicit, official policy was outlined quite well in the staff report, but I can promise you that
- No manager at our store would be able to explain it to a customer
- No manager at our store would attempt to explain it to a customer if they were able to
- No customer would be willing to listen to the willing and able manager who actually made the attempt to explain it
In short, BrassyPhrase is right. The concrete answer is a philosophical exercise. The reality is a battle and stores concentrate the troops where the risk lies. It ain’t with credit card transactions… while I’m peering closely at a charge slip and comparing it with the signature on the back of a credit card, some dude is filling his cargo pants with merchandise and getting ready to walk right past me.
I haven’t, nor has anyone (that I’ve noticed) complained about someone asking for my ID when they read the words CHECK ID on the back of my card.
My VISA card says “CHECK ID” on the back. I would expect and want them to check my ID when they see those words.
My complaint when they ask for my ID is on my American Express. I have not written “CHECK ID” on my American Express. And, my photograph is already on the American Express. So why, when I go to Gamestop (and only Gamestop) do they ask for my ID and my signature?
I just called American Express. The rep I spoke with initially told me that American Express does not specify to the merchant which way they should do it. I told her no merchant does it except for one, and she put me on hold to check with her manager.
She came back and told me that her manager said it’s up to the merchant - they can choose to ask for ID, and if I refuse to provide ID, the merchant can refuse the transaction.
Gfactor, one point in your answer was, until recently, quite accurate:
But there was a teeny-tiny series of lawsuits (registration may be required with NYTimes.com) that Amex (and Discover) launched against MasterCard and Visa alleging illegal restraint of trade. (In essence, MasterCard and Visa enforced exclusivity rules on member banks, barring them from issuing cards under competing networks – i.e. Amex and Discover.) As noted in the link, the key legal issues ultimately went to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled in Amex’s favor.
Of course, now is perhaps not the most propitious time (ahem) for either network to be launching new cards on an unfamiliar business model. But that’s not stopping the largest U.S. retail bank from launching its first Amex card.
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll check it out.
G
If I may hijack a tiny bit… The column mentions the difference between credit cards and charge cards, which I’ve seen before and never understood. A charge card doesn’t let you keep a revolving balance, you have to pay by the end of the month. But what if you don’t? If you miss a payment, do they just forget it? file a lawsuit? send people to break your legs? Or do they just tack it onto next months bill and charge interest? but wait… isn’t that a credit card now?
confused…
If I may hijack a tiny bit… The column mentions the difference between credit cards and charge cards, which I’ve seen before and never understood. A charge card doesn’t let you keep a revolving balance, you have to pay by the end of the month. But what if you don’t? If you miss a payment, do they just forget it? file a lawsuit? send people to break your legs? Or do they just tack it onto next months bill and charge interest? but wait… isn’t that a credit card now?
confused…
I think the difference is that expectation that you will pay a charge card off every month.
With a credit card, if you pay the minimum monthly amount but don’t pay the card off, they’ll roll the balance over to the next month and charge you interest.
If you don’t even pay the minimum monthly amount, they will hit you with a Late Fee, which is a charge above and beyond the interest, and is bound to be much more than the interest.
With a charge card, the minimum monthly payment is your entire balance. If you don’t pay the entire balance, you’re hit with interest and a late fee.
That’s right.
I could have sworn we did a staff report about this about 6 years ago. Or more specifically it might have been about whether it’s legal to write “ask for ID” instead of putting your signature. Back then I told about the time I paid with a card and the clerk pointed out that I hadn’t signed the back of the card yet. So I signed it, and then signed the receipt. She held them both up to compare the signatures…
The consensus, as I recall from our earlier discussion about whether it is legal to put “Check ID” instead of a signature, was that it is not. The Post Office, at least, will often not accept cards signed like that. Back when we discussed this before, I told about the time I paid with a card and the clerk pointed out that I hadn’t signed the back of the card yet. So I signed it, and then signed the receipt. She held them both up to compare the signatures…
Last week I stopped at a gas station to fill up my motorcycle and the pump didn’t allow cards. So I carried my card inside to pay, wearing full face helmet and sunglasses. Clerk asked for my ID, looked at the picture, looked at me (my fully covered face) and accepted the card.