Credit rating question

This is for you credit gurus out there. MrWhatsit and I are looking to move into a new place sometime soon. We’ll still be renting, not buying, but last time we rented a place, the rental agency ran a credit check on us and stuff.

With this in mind, and knowing that I have a few financial mishaps in my past, I requested a copy of my credit report. What I found out was not good. My FICO score is 643, which is apparently in the 22nd percentile, or, “hideous”. The main reasons for this, I think, are 1) I didn’t pay my final phone bill in Illinois back when I was a college student, and they reported me to a collection agency. This bill is still unpaid, as I didn’t realize I’d left that bill unpaid, and the collection agency never actually found me. 2) I had a credit card in college, and once I let it get extremely overdue, to the point that they, uh, put a hold on it. This shows up on the credit report I requested as “90+ days overdue” although it was actually more days than that.

The credit card has long since been paid off (back in 1999), and when I realized that the account was still active, I called up the credit card company today and cancelled it for good. I’ll be calling the collection agency tomorrow to find out where to send the money to finally pay off that old phone bill.

My question is, how much is all this going to hurt my chance of being able to rent a place? Exactly how bad IS my credit? What can I do now to repair it, beyond what I’m already doing (paying off the collection bill, etc.)? Will it be possible, when renting a place, to use only MrWhatsit’s good credit, instead of combining his good credit and my crappy credit?

Argh, why did I make so many stupid stupid stupid stupid financial mistakes in college??

Really, I wouldn’t sweat it. I pull a credit check on nearly all my prospective tenants. I am looking for more than a few minor indiscretions. There is lots more information that can turn up on a credit report than a score and at least yours has a positive rating.

Above all be up front with your landlord or property manager and you might even offer them a copy of your recent credit report.

643 isn’t what I would call “hideous” by any means. It’s slightly below the level needed for some forms of credit, but only barely so.

With a score of 650, you can get many private student loans for example. Some of these places will even take one as low as 600, if everything else seems sound. You do want to take care of the phone bill as quickly as possible, because open items are often frowned upon. While this will appear on your report for quite a few years, with the exception of bankruptcy and repossesions, many lenders are mostly interested in bad items within the last two years and open items.

I would guess that a prospective landlord would be even more lenient regarding your credit report, so I can’t imagine you having a problem unless they have a very long waiting list for the property. Many landlords do check the reports of all tenants, so you may not be able to rely solely on your husbands report.

One way to improve your credit score is having lines of credit (credit cards, etc.), but taken to an extreme this can have a lesser known negative impact. I’ve seen cases where people had wonderful credit, but due to having several cards with extremely high credit limits, their debt-to-income ratio was too high. This is usually calculated based on what your potential debt load is, not what it actually is.

After re-reading my post again, I noticed that I seem to advise a person getting numerous lines of credit, which is not what I meant, nor is it a good thing. You do need some positive credit (versus non-existant) for a good score, but not that much. A single credit card with a reasonable credit limit, maybe a car payment, and a few utilities will do the trick.

Always pay your bills on time, keep your credit card balances low, and don’t apply for lots of credit at the same time. Once you’ve done that, patience will improve your score all by itself.

MsWhatsit, your credit score may or may not affect your rental prospects (there are some places that would reject you, but many will not), but it’s possible you might eventually want to buy a house, a car, or some other large purchase where your credit score is going to have major impact. You will thank yourself later if you clean it up now.

Here’s how:

Contact the original creditor. Make absolutely sure you get it in writing from whoever you talk to (faxes will do) that they will actually remove all record of the collection from your report as soon as you pay it. Otherwise, it will still show up as an account that went into collection, and the status will just go from unpaid to paid. Guess what?!? Your credit score will be just as bad! Paid or unpaid, that collection report knocks at least 100 points off your score, regardless. And yes, the creditor can take it off. Their authorization is necessary. If someone you talk to says they can’t do it, then ask to talk to someone who can. Tell them you know it won’t help your credit report to just pay the bill if the collection notice stands. Stick to your guns, because this is the truth. It will not help your score if you just pay it, and the collection notice just changes to paid. You can always pay the bill a couple of weeks later, and meanwhile, that gives you the chance to call back a few times and get someone a.) intelligent b.)with the authority to make the agreement. Remember that the collection agency can’t make it go away without OK from the original creditor, so make sure you get things in writing from them.

Background, and credit report horror story with Educational and Illuminating Moral:

The husband had a collection notice on his credit report. Actually, it was a doctor’s office that screwed up and never billed him for one visit for some reason. Then, they sent it to a collection agency before they ever contacted him. Meanwhile, he’s been there several times more, and paid literally thousands of dollars to them, no problems. The bill in question was for $59.00. Go figure. There’s more; it turns out the whole thing was probably a mistake on their part, but enough for now.

Anyway, said collection report sat there on his credit record for a couple years, unbeknowst to him, because hewas never contacted by anyone. Found out about it last August, when applying for a loan, and was knocked for a loop by the rates offered. His record is sterling except for that one glitch. So, he calls the medical practice billing office, the woman on the other end promises she’ll remove the collection if he pays the $59 plus an extra $30 in interest. He does. The collection never gets removed. Just goes from “unpaid” to “paid.” His credit score remains exactly the same. After innumerable calls to credit reporting agency, collection agency, and back again to the medical practice, it becomes firmly established that yes, indeed, the medical practice billing could remove the collection notice with one simple “OK”, but they won’t. It’s not their “policy.” They promised they would? Oh, can we prove it with something in writing? No? Too bad.

There it would end, with the husband having to pay interest on a secured loan at a rate higher than all his credit cards; except he got mad. He wrote them a long letter, outlining the entire history, in full detail, and insisting they provide documentation of the original bill. He also pointed out that an oral contract is still a contract, and he had been promised that the collection would be removed, for consideration of immediate payment. Small claims court was mentioned in thoughtful, appreciative terms. He sent it to them certified mail. Finally, he got a reply letter from billing; OK, they’ll make an exception. Just this once. Meanwhile, after finally checking records on our end, we now think what really happened is the whole thing was a billing error; they couldn’t find any documentation for the bill on their end, but still didn’t want to give back the payment or admit they made a mistake. So, the collection is finally off his report, and his credit score is now in the happy land of “please, won’t you let us loan you money?” It only took 8 months. He’s still out the $89.00 extortion payment; that’s relatively insignificant compared to all the time and intense annoyance extensive dealings with mindless bureaucracy entails. The moral: if only he’d gotten that initial agreement in writing. Sure, there was one woman in that billing department who clearly enjoyed playing teapot tyrant, but more than anything else, they want the money. Husband gave them the chance to make his life miserable for a little while, by taking their word, and paying up front. That’s how they treated somone who was innocently on the receiving end of their billing mistake. Just imagine how they’ll treat you if you give them the chance. Just also remember, much as they’d love to torment you into shrieking eternity, they’d rather have the money, and will reluctantly release their taloned hold if that’s the only way they’ll get paid.

Getting the collection notice off should result in a remarkable improvement in your credit score’s health. The 90-day late thing isn’t good, but doesn’t have the disaster impact just one collection report has. Think of the former as a zit, and the latter as a massive, malignant facial tumor. I think you can get rid of it by cancelling the card, though you may have to call the credit report people a couple of times to remind them to remove mention of the card. I’m not sure on that one, never having personally witnessed that process.

More information about credit reporting and credit scores:

https://www.eloan.com/myeloan/creditfaq?sid=Jr6EpQJ3T0YAItTpAXDYlW-pIXU

http://www.creditscoring.com/pages/actualuse.htm

Thanks for the responses, guys. I will try calling the phone company to see about getting that collection notice removed, but I am not optimistic about my chances, based on my dealings with that particular phone company back when I lived in Illinois. It’s worth a shot, though. And even if they won’t remove it, it’s already two years old and getting older all the time, which as I understand it will gradually improve my credit rating, especially if I pay the charge.

That is pretty interesting, if true. It is my understanding that a negative report cannot be removed from a credit report. You can however, add an explaination or your version to the story.

Maybe DMC or one of the other “credit folks” can verify this information?

I work with our collections department on a daily basis, so I don’t know if that qualifies me as a “credit folk,” but yes, the original creditor can withdraw an account from a collection agency. If the account is withdrawn from a collection agency but it appears on a credit report, contact the credit bureau directly and dispute it. The credit bureau will reverify the information within 30 days and, if it is found to be in error (or if the creditor doesn’t respond to the inquiry), must remove the information from your report and, within five days of completing its investigation, send you notice of the outcome. If the dispute still exists, you are allowed to submit a response to the item of no more than 100 words which must be provided along with the credit information to potential creditors.

If you do dispute directly with the creditor, then the creditor is required by law to report the corrected information to every national bureau to which it previously reported the information. If the creditor continues to report the information it must include the fact that you are disputing the account as well.

Check out www.abc-credit.com for more information.

Otto is correct, that is how it’s supposed to work; in my husband’s case, the credit reporting bureau did not actually verify by checking any original documentation that any valid billing for services rendered even existed. It was more a matter of husband files the dispute; credit bureau calls creditor and asks “Hey, you guys still reporting a collection, even though it’s paid?”; screwed-up billing department says “Yup; leave it on his record to teach that guy to mess with us.” BUT they never provided any actual documentation; their say-so alone was sufficent for the credit bureau to come back and say, “Sorry, they say to leave it on there. That’s good enough for us.” The dispute information also never managed to make it to his credit report during the eight months this dragged on until resolved; I suppose it probably would have made it there eventually.

But, as I mentioned previously, without going into all the mind-numbingly dull details, it ultimately turned out that the original collections action was a mistake on their part. They couldn’t document that my husand had ever actually seen their doctor or obtained other billable services within a couple months of that date–because, (as we finally figured out) he hadn’t!

I left out some other background in my first post; the experiences of my former neighbor and a few others; these proved to my satisfaction that most creditors, even those with utterly valid billings, will consent to remove all collection information from your credit report if you make it worth their while. She was contacted by collections for a four-year-old credit-card debt that had gone into write-off; they offered her a deal where if she paid about a third of the original amount she had owed them, they would both officially forgive the balance of the debt, AND remove all negative information about it from her credit report. She got everything in writing, and it all worked out for her. (I found it fairly ironic that she endured far less bureaucratic grief in clearing up a valid debt, than my husband did for his victimization.)

I’m also pretty certain about the equally negative impacts of a “paid” collection vs. an “unpaid” collection on a credit score; my husband kept checking his score every month, and it stayed exactly the same the entire time until the thing finally got completely removed. Then it rocketed straight up. MsWhatsit, you might want to double-check that paying off the collection account will actually “gradually improve your score.” From everything I’ve seen so far, that just isn’t the case. I mean, it sounds logical, but credit scores don’t seem to actually have a whole lot to do with logic. My husband had otherwise great credit history; but a single fifty-nine dollar paid collection on his credit report shoved his score down into the problem credit range. I’m afraid that simply paying off the old bill without an agreement with the creditor, not only won’t help your credit score at all, it may well hurt your chances of finally cleaning it up; you’d be losing any opportunity of a future offer like my neighbor received. I’m not saying never pay the bill; valid debts should be paid, no question. I’m just saying do all you can to prevent a negative and potentially very expensive collection report from following you around for the next seven to ten years. It’s also a good general policy to get a copy of your credit report every year, so you can clear up any errors. They do happen, and frequently. In fact, in addition to the wretched collections debacle, my husband discovered his credit report listed a write-off credit card account he had never had! Fortunately, that was such a big, dumb, obvious error, he was able to get it removed from his report in less than a month.

With some persistence, you should be able to verify (or disprove, for that matter) this and other information. Try calling the credit reporting bureau, and ask, and check out the links provided elsewhere in this thread. After all, maybe things are a little different in your state from mine, (or maybe all this info. is nothing more than the wild-eyed ravings of an internet looneytoon! :stuck_out_tongue: )

What you didn’t mention is that any application for credit automatically reduces your credit rating - or at least in all the systems I work with.

The idea is that multiple applications for credit is a bad sign, so each application is a decrement to the score. The applications do not even need to be successful, just the fact you have made one.

One way you can go seriously awry is to apply for a housing loan from multiple banks to get the best deal. You ditch the unattractive offers but the fact you applied to multiple banks for significant amounts of money is a high negative when you next apply for credit.

Manager from TransUnion on board here:

Credit apps “hurting” score: A credit app (which shows as an “inquiry”) is POTENTIALLY a new debt that isn’t reflected on your report yet. Therefor, potential lenders don’t fully know what your TOTAL debt is.

Scoring models: Most focus on the past 2-3 years. Additionally, you CAN have a negative item removed from your report if you dispute it and the lender doesn’t reply in time. ALSO: most lenders cannot verify account info that is over 2-3 years old.

Derog from 1999? Dispute it with all three national bureaus.

www.transunion.com
www.equifax.com
www.experian.com

I went online to get a copy of my report from Experian, since they are the ones that usually show up when I get rejected. Cost me $9.00. The one main theing that jumped right off the page was from a credit card co.

In the status area it states: “Account charged off/past due 120 days. $371 written off. $74 past due as of 1-2002.”

I requested an investigation. After about a month, I received the results of the investigation. It said that the status of the credit card company would remain on my report. I guess that it does not matter that I paid the $371 a year ago and I have a letter from the credit card co. stating that my balance is ZERO and there is NO past due amount.

So, what do I do to get this off my report or at least get it repaired?

And people ask me why I don’t use credit cards.

I actually did follow up my post saying not to open multiple lines of credit in a short period of time. Applying for a single line of credit here and there doesn’t do any harm, and good credit is much better than no credit. Most systems look for multiple credit report inquiries in a specific time period. If you got a car loan two years ago and are now applying for a credit card, it won’t harm your credit worthiness.

There are exceptions to the inquiry rule. For example, if a potential employer pulls your history, this is not reported in the same way that it would be if a bank pulled your history for a loan.

<Slight hijack>

Philster,

A few years ago, I was trying to embed credit history pulling into an app I was developing. The client requested Experian, who pretty much balked at helping anyone who wasn’t willing to install T-1 lines directly to them for this purpose. Since my clients were usually too small for the cost to be justified, we just continued to pull them externally.

Does TransUnion offer that capability? I was thinking maybe an encrypted TCP/IP transmission so that my app could pull them as long as they had an internet connection on each client.

Since much of the approval process can be automated, it would be a lot easier for things like credit score to show up in my data, instead of requiring data entry.

</Slight hijack>

DMC, visit www.transunion.com and select “business solutions”.

At a minimum, you should be able to request for someone to contact you,since you are interested in using TU as your credit report provider.

Geeze, we have so many auto configurations it would blow my mind if someone could not help you.

Most applicationss are integrated in some type of auto score approve/deny process, etc etc.

CHEEZIT: send copies of your letter to the bureaus. When the investigation happened, and the account remained in unpaid status, it was because you cc company verified it that way. We accept legitimate documentation.

back to inquiries:

Actually, one inquiry alone does have a bearing on your score, because it is potential debt in an unknown quantity.

Quite the reverse for “multiple” inquiries. Say, four mortgage inquiries in one week. Only one is considered, as the others are considered duplicates, even if from different mortgage companies.

Yes, if you have on or even mulitple inquiries for employment, they don’t impact your score. They are tagged differently, and since they are not some potential unknown quantity/quality of debt, they likely have no bearing on your score.