Let us start by the final court of appeal in Scottish Criminal cases. Steophan erroneously holds that there is a criminal appeal process from the Scottish courts to the Supreme Court.
I maintain that the Supreme Court is the final court of appeal for Scottish Civil and Administrative Law, but that the Supreme Court has no jurisdiction over Criminal trials- and that one cannot appeal to the Supreme Court on a matter of verdict or sentence from the Court system in Scotland.
The Supreme Court only trumps Scottish Law over Administrative and Civil matters. Otherwise the High Court of the Justiciary is the final criminal appeal court in Scotland and the Supreme Court in London cannot here purely criminal appeals.
I said nothing of the sort. I said that the Supreme Court is the highest court in the land, and clarified later that it is the joint highest with the Scottish equivalent.
You are inventing an argument I never made to defeat, to make your argument look better. There’s a name for that tactic, but it escapes me at the moment…
Well, I wouldn’t take that as Tom encouraging you to start this thread, rather just to knock it off in that one. But I’ll let this stand for the moment.
Yes, I know. That’s what I said. Or are you maintaining that the High Court of the Judiciary is higher than the Supreme Court? If so, cite it and I’ll accept that I was wrong. Otherwise it remains entirely true of both the Supreme Court and the High Court of the Judiciary (thanks for reminding me of the name) that they are the highest court in the UK.
You are wriggling. The high Court of Judiciary is at the same level of Criminal justice for Scotland as the Supreme Court is for England. The original statement is false or at least incomplete.
It would be correct to say that the Highest Criminal Courts in the UK are the High Court of Judiciary for Scottish Cases and the Supreme Court for the rest of the UK. Both are at the same level for Criminal Law and there is no appeal on criminal verdicts or sentences from one to the other.
There are a limited set of circumstances where the Supreme Court can be appealed to in Scots criminal cases - my limited understanding is that this mechanism is just used to clarify points of law, specifically around devolved powers, and once decided the case reverts back to the High Court of Judiciary.
It’s the one that changed the rights of access to a solicitor in Scottish police custody (via appeal to the Supreme Court), which I think was brought up in the other thread.
Agreed. I used language carefully. I said that verdicts and sentences were not appealable.
Appeals on administrative issues are of course settled by the Supreme Court especially when about external matters such as treaties.
But decisions by the Supreme court do not affect the verdicts but require a change in the law if necessary and subsequent quashing or retrial as with several recent cases. It is similar to the relationship of the Supreme Court to the ECHR where a contrary verdict does not change the law or any verdicts or sentences but requires administrative or legislative action.
That is the one I was referring to. The verdict did not automatically overturn convictions gained in a way made illegal by the Supreme Court’s judgement but required administrative and legislative action.
You can hardly complain about someone providing incomplete or misleading information. I am, and have been for as I can remember, fully aware that the criminal justice system in Scotland is separate, and when the Supreme Court was formed it was made clear to anyone who followed it that it would have limited jurisdiction in Scotland.
I have never claimed otherwise, I have never believed otherwise, and your claims that I have done so are false.
I genuinely have no idea what you are so upset about here. Is it simply that a TV programme discussing the whole of Britain gave entirely correct, but incomplete, information?
Do you agree that there is no appeal on verdicts or sentence in Criminal matters from the High Court of Judiciary to the Supreme Court and that consequently the Supreme Court plays no part in the Criminal trial process in Scotland? Therefore the Supreme Court is not the sole highest Criminal Court in the UK?
Not everyone is obsessively hitting the refresh key like a crack monkey. I really don’t get why you think this will be some glorious victory if Steophan concedes this point. Total sidetrack.
Yes, of course I agree with that. That’s why I’ve said as much in several posts…
Do you acknowledge that there is no court in the UK that can overrule the Supreme Court, and therefore it is joint highest court in the land? If not, please explain why not, with cites.