CRPG recommandations (and opinions about "the witcher")

The Game Room
1

As the title says. Having been playing Skyrim, it renewed my interest in CRPG, and I’d like to have some recommandations. I had quite good ones last time I asked, about wargames.

For the record, the CRPG I’ve played and liked :

  • Planescape : Torment (really great story. My all time favourite)
  • Fallout 2 : Great, original athmosphere and use of competences/perks
  • Arcanum : Mostly same as Fallout with a world reactive to your actions/behavior
  • Elder scroll serie (By order of preference : Morrowind, Skyrim, Oblivion, and the very bugged Daggerfall) : great freedom, great graphics.

Obviously I know about Fallout : 1 and New Vegas, even though I didn’t play them. Opinions about the later are welcome, though, especially in comparison with both previous Fallout games and with Skyrim.

I also played Baldur’s Gate and the related games, some of the Might and Magic RPGs. I guess I found them OK, but nothing more.
I mentioned “The withcher” in the title because it seems interesting according to reviews I read. The negative points from my point of view would be that it seems to be very action-based, and very directive. But it gets praise for a dark, adult, non-manicheist world, and a very compelling story. These are what I want to see in a CPRG, and hopefully it can outweight the negatives. For instance, it could be as good as “Planescape : Torment”, also very directive. Or not. So how dark/non-manichean? How good the story?

2

I’ve played both Witcher games. I wouldn’t say they are any more action based than Skyrim (it’s not like I ever negotiated with a bandit in Skyrim), but they are nowhere near as open as Skyrim - but then what is? The first game is more open and is a longer game, IIRC.

Story wise, it is much more of a shades of gray kind of world. Obviously you’re playing a defined character rather than inventing your own, though you do have the ability to mold Geralt in different ways - stressing fighting, alchemy, or magic (signs) - so that everyone’s Geralt is fairly different. Your choices have consequences; piss off the elves and a section of story that they are involved in becomes unavailable, etc.

There is a lot less magic - or at least less showy magic. Part of that is that you are playing Geralt, who has particular skill sets - there are mages who can do more fantastical magic, but they are all NPC’s. I really like the alchemy system, especially in the first game - one neat aspect of that is that each potion has a toxicity level, so that you can only have so many effects going at one time.

I recommend them both.

One note: Fallout 3 is done by the same folks who did Skyrim, and the bones of the game are very similar - quest structure, openness, etc. So if you liked previous Fallout games, and you like the way Skyrim works, chances are you’ll enjoy Fallout 3.

3

I love CRPGs (the only RPGs I play). Great choices with the Fallout, Arcanum, and Planescape (even if the latter two have pretty poor combat). Probably my favorites as well.

You mentioned Baldur’s Gate, but have you played Baldur’s Gate 2 (I know you mentioned related games)? It doesn’t have anywhere near as much “freedom” as in Planescape and Arcanum in terms of choices, but its leagues ahead of the original BG (which is still a very good game, IMO), with great story and characters, as well as a large variety of enemy types. Also has lots of replayablity just to try out different party combinations. The Icewind Dale games focus more on combat than the Baldur’s Gate games and less on story, but they’re still pretty fun.

You might like Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, depending on how you feel about the setting.

If you like TES, you may like Gothic I and II, and (a patched) Darklands.

Not great RPGs, but KOTOR I and II have decent story and dialogue.

Temple of Elemental Evil, is pretty poor in terms of RPG elements, story, and choices, but it has a great combat system.

Neverwinter Nights is okay, but probably the worst one that I could still recommend. Stay away from II.

If you don’t mind something a bit older, you can’t go wrong with Ultima IV upto around VIII. Though, they’re not as dark as gritty as some of the newer RPGs, if that matters too much. SOme of the Wizardry Games and Bard’s Tale are also good, but will probably feel dated and boring if you’re not used to the older stuff. Betrayal at Krondor and Realms of Arkania are recommended as well.

Two Worlds and (if you don’t mind an adventure hybrid) Quest For Glory might also interest.

As far as newer games, The Witcher isn’t too bad, but you’re right about the combat. I have no problem with certain action RPGs such as Deus Ex and Ultima Underworld (two of my all time favorite games), but the combat is very disappointing here. I still enjoy it more than Oblivion, and it’s a hell lot better than other newer RPGs like Mass Effect, Skyrim, and Dragon Age, though, so I’d say it’s worth a shot.

I haven’t played New Vegas, but from all accounts, it’s not anywhere near as interesting as the first two, a bit too action based, and very buggy.

4

RPGs and strategy games are the main games I play.

I personally consider the Witcher games my favourite games ever. The stories are indeed darker than your average RPG, and are full of moral ambiguity; you can support different sides in conflicts in different playthroughs without either choice necessarily appearing either “correct” or “evil”, for example. They’re also very good at characterization, I feel; IMO the Witcher 2 has the best (as in well-developed, 3-dimensional, and realistic) characters of any video game. The games also freely deal with issues of drugs, sex, racism, and fanaticism, as well as violence (violence and oppression normally being the only visible evils in most games). Like Planescape: Torment the games are best if you take the time to get immersed in the game’s world (talk to characters, read books and descriptions in-game, even consider reading some of the stories by Andrzej Sapkowski that the games are based on).

The complaints I’ve heard about the Witcher games are mostly based on opinions about the gameplay – personally I have no complaints at all. There is a lot of combat, but that’s true of all the games you mentioned as well. If you pick the easiest difficulty levels it’ll never get in the way, if you just want to get into the story. Play them in order if you get them - it makes more sense that way. 1 is also simpler to get into, longer, and IMO, easier.

As for other games: the Dragon Age games are very good. 1 is more open and has an epic story spanning a whole country; 2 is much more limited and restrictive, following a set character’s life in a city and its environs. 2 is generally considered a worse game, even poor by comparison, but I still enjoy it.

For older games, there’s Knights of the Old Republic, 1 and 2, in the Star Wars universe 1000 years before the films. Even if you hate Star Wars, they’re solid games, especially 1 – and better than the film prequels. 2 is buggy and unfinished (literally – the ending as-is provides no closure, and some aspects of it make no sense), but the story has some great moments and ideas along the way, IMO. But if you only want to try it out, definitely get the first.

There are some shooter-RPG hybrids like Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol. The Mass Effect games are great, and on sale on Steam today. If you hate shooter games, you might not enjoy them – but if you’re open to the idea, they’re actually really good and tell an interesting story in an interesting world. I was actually skeptical at first, picked the first game up in a Steam sale, and now I’m a fan. 1 has a solid main story; 2’s plot makes little sense when you think about it, but has very streamlined (in a good way) gameplay and great characters IMO. Alpha Protocol is a buggy mess hiding a gem – good design and writing screwed over by lousy production, apparently. If you can put up with buggy, imbalanced, and sometimes frustrating gameplay, there’s an interesting experience underneath – particularly as it’s one of the only espionage-themed games I know. In short, many people consider the game crap, but I personally really enjoyed it.

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, mentioned above, is another game I really enjoyed, but it can also be really frustrating. Buggy – though mostly fixed in community patches – and full of action which isn’t necessarily always fun. I consider it more an action game than a “real” RPG, but enjoyable.

There’s also Divinity II: The Dragon Knight Saga, also on sale on Steam today. I have it but haven’t played more than a few minutes, so I can’t comment on it.

5

I found the witcher 2 very boring. the fighting was ridiculously repetitive and not fun in any way. I didnt last far into the story since every fight I encountered was tedious involving running around a lot rather than actual skill. It was “hard” by virtue of the poor fight mechanics, and not through challenging scenarios.

Divinity 2 was pretty fun. I didnt beat it but I got pretty far into it. I loved DA:O, but found the final fight pretty boring and unsatisfying.

6

I don’t think the problem is the amount of combat, but rather the combat mechanics.

7

CRPGs are mostly what I play nowadays, and I’d heartily recommend Fallout New Vegas, which takes most of the good things from Fallout 3 and adds in decent writing, much better quests, and a world that actually makes sense. Quests can often be resolved in a number of ways, and there are a few surprising solutions that I would never have thought possible (a spoiler-free example: one quest gives you a job, which puts you in a unique position to do an action in that position that lets you solve another quest that was given to you by someone on the other side of the game world). The game isn’t perfect, as it still has some minor bugs, annoyances and some engine oddness, but 120 hours in, and I still love it.
**
Dragon Age: Origins** is nice, essentially a real-time (with pausing) tactical battle simulator with really well-presented story segment cut-scenes and dialogue. The sense of exploration is not there so much, as it’s a more tightly-packed presentation that games like Elder Scrolls & Fallout series. But the combat is quite satisfying, as a change in tactics can change the outcome of a battle from a total wipeout to a minor speedbump.

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines is great, though the engine is showing its age nowadays. If you can put up with it, it has one of the more interesting stories/worlds to feature in a modern CRPG, with great, often hilarious dialogue and cool atmosphere. It plays sort of like Deus Ex, but with more RPG elements and more of an emphasis on melee than guns (you can also play as one of the vampire tribes that have more magic-like abilities).