So, I’m currently losing sleep re-reading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and some of the stuff which bugged me the first time around is still bugging me. I came up with the idea of mapping some of it to the CSI and detective show thing in general and my wife and I have been having fun talking about a CSI person in the Harry Potter world.
For those familiar with the books but who need a quick refresher, HPatOotP features massive numbers of people sticking their heads in their asses out of desperation to avoid the conclusion that Voldemort is back. With only the tools in an average detective’s toolbox it would be easy to examine Harry’s story and prove or disprove it. Here are a few off the top of my head, feel free to add more. Bonus points for using CSI-style investigative techniques. A couple of these are based on my recollection of the events at the end of Goblet of Fire, so if there is some detail I’m missing that makes them impossible I apologize.
Autopsy on Cedric Diggory. If his death was as a result of the Triwizard tournament, then he must have died of something one of the hazards in the contest could have produced. He wasn’t blown to bits by a Blast-Ended Skrewt. He wasn’t killed by a giant spider, or burned in a hedge fire. He demonstrably was not killed by the Sphinx. If there is a way to detect death by Avada Kedrava then this is a sure-fire hit because then Harry’s wand could be tested like they did in Goblet of Fire to see what spells it had performed recently. Also Avada Kedrava is an extremely difficult spell to power and even though Harry is extraordinary I would doubt he could perform this spell.
Test the imposter Moody’s wand. See if it lined up with Harry’s assertions that he had used the Imperius Curse.
Re-use the Triwizard Cup portkey. If it takes you to a graveyard where Voldemort’s muggle father was buried and his grave has been disturbed, that’s some pretty strong corraborative evidence.
Interview and try to establish whereabouts for the Death Eaters Harry fingered. If they all disappeared around the timeframe in question, that’s at very least suspicious.
Time to go CSI!
If the previous step works, get warrants for their clothes/shoes and see if there is physical evidence linking them to the graveyard. Soil samples, blood from Harry’s cut when they were holding him, etc.
Examine the cut on Harry’s arm and see if the cut pattern could be produced by anything in the Triwizard maze. As with Cedric, the cut from the knife to draw Harry’s blood(“Blood of an enemy, forcibly taken”) probably could not be produced by any of the creatures/objects in the maze. A claw would tear skin, not cut it cleanly.
The port-key was probably meant to only be used once, or stop working after a certain period of time, or something like that. Perhaps it only worked on the first person to grab it. At any rate, I doubt it could be re-used. At the beginning of HPatGoF, the port-key they used only worked at a certain time, so it’s not unlikely that the cup-key was similar in nature.
That doesn’t mean they couldn’t visit Riddle’s father’s grave and see if it’s been disturbed, or do anything else you mentioned.
I think part of the problem though wasn’t just evidence. Once people get an idea in their head, it can be hard to convince them otherwise (talking about people in general here). Even if they proved Harry’s story, they probably wouldn’t believe him. As you said, they were shoving their heads up their asses to avoid the idea that Voldemort was back. The last thing they want to believe is that You-know-who is back, and they’d go out of their way to avoid the possibility if they could.
That is certainly possible. There appears to be a lot of different things a portkey can be made to do. I don’t think the portkey was configured to only work at a certain time(like the Quidditch World Cup portkeys because they couldn’t know how fast or slow the race through the maze would be. I also don’t think it was one-time only use or else Harry wouldn’t have been able to use it to get back from the graveyard. If it was going to be limited-use at all then the configuration that makes sense(and Barty Crouch Jr. was no idiot) is one-shot, one-way. I’d guess the Triwizard cup portkey was still active and could still have been used.
That’s true, but there were some people who has the ear of the public, notably Dumbledore when it first happened, who could have taken a handful of people(Fudge, members of the Wizengamot, etc.) and in ten minutes or so established if Harry was telling the truth about the graveyard and the diverted portkey. He could have said “We’re going to see if that Potter boy is lying to us. Everybody grab hold on the count of three…” Then it would have been pretty much inescapable. Harry, Ron, and Hermoinie are about the only ones who have shown even an inkling of investigative curiosity and even then it is hit and miss. There is an entire wing of magical law enforcement(Aurors) who seem qualified and trained to do exactly the kind of investigation that no one did. That’s what doesn’t seem to gell when I look at the situation. The tiniest bit of due dilligence, considering the enormity of the situation if Harry is telling the truth, didn’t even seem to occur to people.
Of course this is how it had to be to set up all of Harry’s angst in book 5, but that doesn’t make it less annoying to have the wizarding community selectively lobotomized(so dumb something like retracing Harry’s steps or checking for cause of death for Cedric) when it advances the plot and clever in other times.
Priori Incantatem on Barty Crouch, Jr.'s wand is a brilliant idea (unless it’s Alastor Moody’s wand that he’s been using, which is pretty likely, but the same comment applies).
For that matter, I wonder what a Priori Incantatem on Harry’s wand would reveal, after the extraordinary events of the evening.
OTOH, I think it’s possible that the bog-standard prior incantato used by Mr. Diggory in the woods beneath the Dark Mark in August might only be good to recover one spell (in much the same way that *69 can only call back one phone number).
Forensic testing on Harry’s wound from the Little Hangleton graveyard is a bit more problematic. I have the distinct impression that the phoenix-tears that healed the wound might have done so without leaving a scar.
As to the ability to reuse the portkey, that point bothered me. I have always thought that it was reset to “return to Hogwarts” mode because of something that the spirits of Cedric, Bertha, Lily and James did to it during the Harry-voldemort duel. Although it is possible that it was set for multiple uses as a part of Voldemort’s original plan. I’d like to get a ruling from Rowling on that issue.
Still, the basic notion of investigating Harry’s story through CSI-like techniques strikes me as sound. Dumbledore presumably knows where Tom Riddle’s (the elder) remains are supposed to be, and Harry has evidence on his own clothes (as does Cedric’s corpse) that can place him in that graveyard on the evening of June 24, 1996.
But so far everyone has missed the most important question:
Which Who song gets used as the theme song for CSI: Hogwarts?
Seriously, I figure that a CSI-style investigation is another one of those things the wizarding world doesn’t know how to do and quite possibly don’t even want to know.
I figure you can get double duty out of Babba O’Reiley. Teenage wasteland… Teenage wasteland…
So what the hell are Aurors good for? We know they’ve got regular old Magical Law Enforcement that tracks down minor stuff like regurgitating toilets. Surely the Aurors can take on a little bit of due dilligence in a mysterious death which is claimed to be linked to Voldemort/Death Eaters.
Any other aspects of the books which don’t hold up to CSI? What about Hagrid being accused of being the Heir of Slytherin in Chamber of Secrets? Could the CSI guys have gotten him off? How? What about Ginny? Could they have figured out she was being posessed and how before Harry did(actually, he never did, he was told flat out by Riddle’s embodied memory)? Book three, could CSI teams have cleared Sirus? How?
Priori Incantatem would probably have done it as soon as he was captured. It would have revealed he hadn’t cast any hexes which could blow up a street full of people. Maybe some sort of analysis of the blast pattern to show that it wasn’t from where Sirus was standing or at an angle he could have managed with his wand? Testimony from the person who performed the spell that made Wormtail the Potter’s secret-keeper(wasn’t that Dumbledore?) would have made it clear Sirus couldn’t have betrayed Lily and James if he had wanted to.
I think Jayn_Newell hit the nail on the head. Fudge, Umbridge, etc didn’t come to their conclusion logically – thy came to the conclusion and tried to force the evidence to match it. Umbridge was so much of a fanatic that she was prepared to torture a kid to prove her point.
Plus, you have the problem with media concentration – there was no independent press except the tabloid. No dissenting voices. Wizards don’t have internet or television, and their radio seems to be all pop music. They get all their news from The Daily Prophet, or by word of mouth.
I’m not sure what CSI is exactly, but if it’s remotely high-tech, it would have to be adapted to work in any high-magic area, the way cameras and watches are adapted to run off magic. Since they haven’t done this with either Internet or television yet, it seems to be that this process takes a long time.
As for Crouch’s wand, it’s heavily implied that the Dementor who attacked Crouch did so on Voldemort’s orders – he was trying to eliminate the evidence. he Dementor could have always pocketed the wand as well (does it have pockets on that cloak?).
I’m not so sure about this. Dumbledore believes Harry, as he always does, but the Ministry of Magic, especially those in the higher rungs, seem to side with the public more than Dumbledore. He’s been removed from Hogwarts once already because they were listening to the public (Well, Lucius really, IIRC). Dumbledore is admired greatly, but few people outside Hogwarts trust him very much, and the MoM is more than happy to ignore his words if it suits them. Actually, I can’t think of one time they actually listened to him without proof that he was right staring them in the face.
Dumbledore obviously didn’t perform the Fidelius Charm. In POA, Dumbledore tells Harry and Hermione that he gave evidence to the Ministry of Magic that Sirius was the Secret Keeper. Ergo, he was unaware of the switch thought up by Sirius, ergo, he didn’t perform the charm. I suspect that the charm was performed by either Sirius or, more likely, James (imensely complex, according to Flitwick in the Three Broomsticks; Peter probably wouldn’t have been up to it).
Come to think of it, the whole Fidelius Charm business has holes in it big enough to drive a lorry through. If only the Secret Keeper can divulge the information on the Potter’s bolthole, how did Sirius know to show up there? How did Dumbledore know to send Hagrid there? How did McGonagall know that Voldemort had shown up in Godric’s Hollow? How did Godric’s Hollow end up being mentioned in all the rumors that were flying around?
Hmmm. Maybe Peter Pettigrew did perform the Charm. And it turned out an absolute cock-up!
I have to commend two people for brilliance here: Steven for probably the wittiest thread title ever (and there have been some great ones, but this is probably the best); Asterion for having the gall to begin a question, on this topic, with “Which Who song…”
However, there is an excellent reason why the process outlined herein would not work, and I can’t believe this group hasn’t realized it yet:
Doing an examination of Harry’s wand would constitute kiddie porn!
::: dodges curses, Blast-Ended Skrewts, etc., and flees :::
Two possibilities: First, the other members of the Order might have been in on the secret, presumably before the Fidelius Charm was applied. Only the Keeper can divulge the information, but anyone can know it once divulged (or, presumably, if they know it beforehand). Second possibility is that, once Lily and James (the objects of the charm) were killed, the charm was broken, and it was thereafter possible for anyone to know where they were. This wouldn’t automatically grant the information, but the location probably wasn’t protected by other means, and it’d be easy to suddenly see a curse-blasted house where you didn’t notice a house before and put the pieces together.
Honestly, Rowling writes plot holes large enough to drive a truck through. Not that I don’t enjoy the books, but continuity or sense isn’t her strong point.
Why did a zillion people show up to watch the third task - when apparently it happened in a maze they couldn’t see into. Not much of a spectator sport. If they could see into it - then they’d all know Cedric and Harry got the cup and disappeared. So where to? And why?
For that matter, the second task wasn’t much of a spectator event either. But the third one really bugs me. They put the maze in the quiddich stands - presumably because that way the spectators would be able to see into the maze. Yet, apparently, they couldn’t?
If there are truth potions that powerful, why did they have such a hard time figuring out who was a willing Death Eater and who was acting under the imperius curse. Wouldn’t you just give the Malfoy’s the potion and find out?
This is certainly true by the end of the summer, but there was an opportunity, and I can’t see any reason it wouldn’t have succeeded, as soon as Harry emerged from the maze for Dumbledore to grab the other high-ranking wizards that were present for the final Triwizard event and say “Let’s check this out”. There had not been the daily slurs against Dumbledore, his credibility was still very good. He spent that time with Harry and the false Moody, which should have yielded hard evidence, but it was not preserved or exposed to a wider audience. Having Bagman, Percy, or someone else present for the unmasking and questioning of Barty Crouch Jr. would have fit the bill perfectly. Even taking a couple people with him on a visit to the graveyard(friendly members of the Wizengamot perhaps?) would have done a lot to make it more than just “Harry’s word.” And it would have been nearly trivial to do so, just pick up the portkey or apparate.
I’m not sure this is true. I know there is at least one other widely circulated publication, “Witch Weekly” and there may be more. We just learned of “The Quibbler” in book 5 IIRC, but there may be more.
This is true of some Crime Scene Investigation techniques, but most are decidely low-tech. Autopsies, chemical analysis of fibers/soil samples, plaster imprints of tires/footprints, and most importantly, photographs. Of course what makes many of these work in the CSI world is the massive databases of crime reports, fingerprints, etc. that CSI has access to(and real world CSI’s droll over and/or laugh at). I don’t know of a Wizarding analogue to these crime databases, but still there is a LOT an investigator could do that no one seems to even think of. Plus the Wizarding world has their own investigative technology. Think about the foe-glass and the various “dark detectors”. Surely one or two of these would be useful to an investigation. There are already several places where a simple Priori Incantatem would have made a huge difference.
Voldemort seems very, very good at avoiding detection. Of course the Wizarding world/authorities seem very, VERY BAD at detecting stuff. Think about it, when has anyone been caught anything other than red-handed? There must be scads of physical evidence for Fred and George’s misdeeds, but they keep getting away with them. All those “mysterious disappearances” when Voldemort was in power the first time and they never caught him until he was blown up in his own hex trying to kill Harry? Look at all the bad guys thrown into Azkaban. Sirus was found at the scene of the crime, standing exactly still. The LeStranges and Barty Crouch Jr. were found red-handed torturing the Longbottoms. Look at the trouble they had catching the guys putting out regurgatiting toilets and biting doorknobs! They finally had to catch the toilet-jinxer in the act to find out who he was. I can’t recall a single arrest which was made after an investigation.
I would guess the secret could be known beforehand, or that Wormtail(still feigning friendship with Sirus) would have told him before he sneaked off and told Voldemort. It’s a pretty big hole. Either the Fidelius Charm blanks the minds of those who knew the secret before it was performed(why the hell wouldn’t the ministry check out Sirus’s childhood home! Well, the reason for that would be Kingsley Shacklebolt, but you still see the pattern) or it breaks when the person/people protected snuff it. I tend towards the former because of the description of the charm. “Only the secret-keeper can reveal it” and it couldn’t work that way if someone who had that knowledge before the charm was performed could still blab.
Anyway, what other revelations would a CSI or even Law & Order level investigator uncover? Could they have cleared Hagrid before he was expelled and his wand broken?
Thanks for the compliment Polycarp! Moxmaiden and I have been calling these little discussions CSI: Hogwarts for a while. One of us will read something from a book and start the discussion, or we’ll see something that jogs a memory and talk it through. It’s been a good laugh sometimes. We don’t dig too deep generally, but Priori Incantatem gets a lot of mileage. I’ve also talked about leveraging Ollivander’s copius memory to find a wand-brother of anyone who was a suspect and pulling a Harry vs. Voldemort(there is a term for this, reverse something) to be able to trace the recent usage of a wand beyond one spell.
