Y’know I used to really enjoy Law and Order and the first episodes of CSI were pretty good, but lately the writing and plotlines on these shows have stretched the credibility rubber band so far it has snapped.
I’ll start with CSI/CSI Miami and the absurd plotlines where criminalists are the investigating detectives and the actual police and detectives are simple-minded gofers and errand boys. Where writers feel free to invent or make up out of thin air near Star Trek like acuity and speed for the machines and procedures the criminalists use in their 100 million dollar mega labs and the main characters all have to be going through some personal crisis that will affect their ability to do the job.
Law and Order (the original) has succumbed to laziness and clunky, paint by the numbers plotlines where the dialog has becomes so polemically stilted and non-natural it makes your ears hurt just to listen to it. The ruts are so well worn for some characters you can hear the weariness in their voice as they crack wise for the 1000th time.
Law and Order Special Victims Unit usually has the perp tagged in the first 10 minutes and the rest of the show is trying to force the slimy, abusing perp to fess up with some trick at the end.
Law and Order Criminal Intent is the biggest disappointment because I thought it had the biggest promise, but it has degraded lately to be a showcase for Vincent D’Onofrio’s savant shtick and “see it marching up 5th Avenue” dues ex machina plotlines with his patented “make 'em confess in the last 60 seconds” finishing move.
Having said all this, there is the potential occasional good show from any of this lot, but it seems that they are getting fewer and fewer as time goes by. Is scripting writing talent that thin that they can’t find better stories that what they deliver?
I haven’t seen “CSI Miami,” [once you notice that whatshisface looks like Howdy Doody, he becomes completely unwatchable] but I definitely agree that the procedural premise of CSI is flawed – criminalists would not be questioning suspects the way they show. Thinking back on it, I’m not sure I’ve seen a whole episode this season – I keep saying “okay, I’ll catch it on reruns next summer” but now I’m starting to think I won’t. This is too bad because their stories are often very cool.
Can’t watch “L&O:SVU” because I can’t deal with the ickiness of most of the crimes.
Still watching “Criminal Intent” because I like D’Onofrio, but his shtick is definitely getting old.
The problem with coming up with plots is that in genre fiction, there are only so many plots available, when it comes right down to it, so the enjoyment of the show is usually more about the sizzle rather than the steak. I personally liked the Tom Sizemore show that got canceled so quickly, and am liking “Boomtown,” because both of them seemed to have different characters and different visual styles, which is about all you can ask for in a cop show. (And I like cop shows, this isn’t a slam against the genre.)
Bring back **Homicide : Life on the Street I say . Still the best cop series. Hallmark have just finished showing season five here and will being showing the next series in May. Can’t wait.
The difference between these shows and good shows is character. There’s not a lot you can stretch out of the plot of “criminal commits crime, police catch criminal” so cop shows are dependant on characterization.
The CSI/L&O clones have all inexplicably chosen to minimize characterization. None of the people on these shows has a life outside the job. The roles are so generic, that in most cases, the actors could swap scripts without needing a rewrite.
I do not like Vincent D’Onofrio’s character at all. In the other L&O franchises, there is a strong sense of team work. Detectives catch the bad guy, with Boss Detective calling the shots. District attorneys bring the bad guy to justice. Boss DA gets the last word. But L&O CI might as well be called the Vincent D’Onofrio Show, occassionally featuring Pretty Sidekick Lady, with Courtney Vance as backup singer. It’s gotten to the point where I want one of the criminals to beat the shit out of him. And the cock-the-head-to-the-side thing that he does is ultra annoying.
Yeah … it’s a parade of woman-gets-raped stories with the occasional child-gets-molested story or guy-gets-his-dick-chopped-off story for a change of pace.
I find CSI annoying because of the relentless number of red herrings they throw in, in lieu of drama.
i.e. A woman drives her BMW into a café. Well, there’s skid marks so she used her brakes… no, wait! The intersection is dangerous… no, wait! She was high on marijauna… no, wait! She was terminally ill and went on a kamikaze run.
Geez, people, it’s gotten so there isn’t any point watching the first half of the show, because every clue they find turns out to be misleading in a really contrived way.
A couple of my friends are really into CSI, but I just can’t seem to get into it myself. It’s okay, just not my bag, baby.
I do still like Law & Order, and Criminal Intent. I’ve watched SVU a few times, but I feel they have too many main characters. That and I keep seeing that one detective as the character he played on OZ, and that kind of ruins his credibility for me as a police officer.
I watched Criminal Intent for the first time last night, and I had the same credibility problem with Chris Meloni’s character. It’s Keller in a suit! Plus, B.D. Wong, who plays Father Ray on OZ, is also on the show, out of his clerical collar.
The first episode of L & O:SVU turned me away. Establishing the female lead as a product of rape seemed melodramatic and manipulative.
I’ll catch L & O: Criminal intent occasionally just to watch D’Onofrio as an actor. I can overlook the implausibility of the character and his advanced study in almost every field imaginable.
I don’t think CI has eroded in quality. Its creators and writers have been confused from the start as the the scope of a criminalist’s duties. One of the very first ones I saw that main dude was ordering a uniform to arrest a perp. It was also one of the last I saw. I realize all dramas have to stretch things sometimes to tell a compelling story in 60 minutes (it’s amazing how many phsyicians, pharmacists, etc. willingly give up any and all medical records without a subpoena, for instance) but when the very premise of a drama is flawed I have trouble getting on board.
I don’t like the SUV L&O precisely because the detectives have a personal life. I was really hoping to see alot more of Munch, too.
I liked the L&OCI initially but am also not as charmed by D’Onofrio’s character the 30th time out as I was the first.
The original L&O is still by far my favorite show. It’s getting tired, yes, but is still interesting and compelling.
[hijack]
I was watching some talk show on which Jerry Orbach was a guest. He was relating his recent experiences visiting Boston. Everywhere he went, people were pointing at him and saying “Lorinada!” He figured there must be a really popular resident of Boston named Lorinada that looked just like him. Then he realized he was in Boston - say “Law and Order” out loud with a thick Yankee accent!
Anyway, when it came to pick out my screen name I was trying to think of something from my list of favorite things to use as a s/n, but nothing sounded right. Until I thought of this story while pondering how to incorporate my favorite TV show into a screen name!
[/hijack]
What got me was finding out that J.K. Simmons also does the voice of the yellow M&M. Makes you wondering if he’s punking the little red one when the cameras aren’t rolling.
We watch CSI here, mainly for cutechick G. Fox, although she is, for some reason, begining to resemble John from Ally McBeal :ick:
My main problem with it is how incredibly slow they seem to be. Not the brightest pennies in the pond, you know? We see a crime scene, we see for example, a dirty big footprint. Just before they are set to leave, somone goes “You know what, I think I am going to take a photo of that footprint”. Eh, no shit? Or geek-boy comes into the office looking all pleased with himself, and presents a key piece of info, “You know that dagger you sent in to me to have it checked for dna? Well, I decided to take a wild and crazy gamble and checked it for fingerprints…” :aaaaghdoh:
Broken windshield class and a car wrapped around a lamp-post. “Going on the evidence, I would say this was a car crash, look, this broken glass is very indicitave of a broken windshield”… no, really Grishom??! I want to be as observant as you one day.
Oh man. And ruin my whole reason for watching this show??? Please noooooooo.:eek: I’d feel the same if someone took T off of SVU.
The giving of Jack of one too many pretty ADA’s is really grating on my nerves. Give him a young man with an attitude. Surly the DA’s office has more than lucious white women working there?
The addition of Fred Thompson is a good thing. As much as I respect Dianne Weist, I just love the crochety old guy. He has that grampa feeling about him that makes you take notice and listen to what he has to say. I’m simmering with anticipation if/when he and Jack really butt heads on politics.
As to the OP, I havn’t seen much of a change in the quality of this progam (and there are plenty of chances for rerun comparision on TNT) that a quick change of cast can’t fix.
I don’t watch CSI, or it’s clones, and I havn’t been able to sit through a whole episode of L&O CI as D’Onofrio gives me the willies.
You know, I’d love to see an episode of NYPD Blue where a crime scene investigator tries to give Andy an order, or ask a suspect a question, or even express an opinion. Andy would savagely put him in place, then snarl to John and Greg “It’s that damn TV show. They all think they’re detectives now.”
My favorite plot crutch in all of these shows is in L&O CI where D’Onofrio is battling some wily criminal mastermind who covers their tracks at every turn, but D’Onofrio turns on the psycho-judo in the last 2 minutes (with the potted plant lawyer standing by silently while D’Onofrio just tears into their client) and the genius perp suddenly breaks down into a babbling, blubbering confessing machine because D’Onofrio insulted his or her manhood, mother, intelligence, morality, child raising skills, fashion sense, penmanship, etc. etc.