Curious when east Asian national identifier became a standard noun?

[wolfman]

Not sure if this should be General questions, but since there will likely be no definitive answer I put it here.
Something I have become increasingly aware of, entirely because of social media, is the sentence construct like…

“As a Japanese I would like to contribute…”
or
"Having lived my whole life since age 3 in the USA, I am troubled as a Chinese I need to say…

That just always triggers my awkward nerve as if someone had said

“As an Irish, I don’t actually drink, but I do know…”

Just curious when that entered English.

[Chronos]

It entered English when constructions like “Chinaman” became unacceptable.

[wolfman]

But did" as someone who is Chinese" or “as someone who is Japanese” become wrong?

That is the formation I am used to.

[Darren_Garrison]

@wolfman

“As an Irish, I don’t actually drink, but I do know…”

But you would say “as an American”, “as a German”, “as an Australian”, etc.

[Q.Q.Switcheroo]

I know a little German…

he’s sitting over there.

[SCAdian]

Per the OED:

Chinese - “a native of China” - 1606
Japanese - “a native of Japan” - 1604

[Slithy_Tove]

Just yet another form of Dundrearyism

And I should know, as a life-long practitioner of same.

[UDS1]

Demonyms are a bit random.

You can say a German, an Italian, a Norwegian, for a person from those countries. But you can’t say a French, a Spanish, a Polish, a British.

Sometimes there’s a separate demonym (a Spaniard, a Pole, a Swede) and sometimes you just have to use the adjective to qualify an appropriate noun — a French man, an Irish person, a British citizen.

There’s no rule about when you can just use the adjective on its own, when you use with a noun like person, and when there’s a separate demonyn — you just have to know.

[Velocity]

I’ve never heard of an Asian calling themselves by a noun when it didn’t end in an “n” or some other suitable letter.

“As a Korean”…proper.
“As an Indonesian”…proper.

If it didn’t end properly, then they said “____ person” - such as, “As a Chinese person…” “as a Japanese person”…

Not saying what the OP said didn’t happen, but it doesn’t seem common. Are you seeing this on Reddit or social media?

[Cervaise]

@UDS1

Demonyms are a bit random.

They’re certainly somewhat more random in English than in other languages, but no language is perfectly consistent. Just for fun, I built the table below using the two European languages I know best, French and German. (I’m not fluent in either but after almost ten years of immersion I can puzzle my way through.) French is more consistent, except when it isn’t (note Finnish).

Country	English	French	German
		Orthographical note: the feminine form is pretty consistently represented by adding an “e” as shown in the first example. This is omitted in subsequent rows except where a different change is noted.	Orthographical note: both masculine/feminine nouns are included due to some inconsistencies in formation. Adjectival suffixes are omitted entirely due to their complexity; the base adjective is generally consistent.
Germany French: Allemagne German: Deutschland	Person: a German Language: German Adjective: German	un(e) Allemand(e) allemand allemand(e)	ein Deutscher / eine Deutsche Deutsch deutsch
Spain French: Espagne German: Spanien	Person: a Spaniard Language: Spanish Adjective: Spanish	un Espagnol espagnol espagnol	ein Spanier / eine Spanierin Spanisch spanisch
France French: France German: Frankreich	Person: a Frenchman/woman Language: French Adjective: French	un Français français français	ein Franzose / eine Französin Französisch französisch
England French: Angleterre German: England	Person: an Englishman/woman Language: English Adjective: English	un Anglais anglais anglais	ein Engländer / eine Engländerin Englisch englisch
Italy French: Italie German: Italien	Person: an Italian Language: Italian Adjective: Italian	un(e) Italien(ne) italien italien(ne)	ein Italiener / eine Italienerin Italienisch italienisch
the Netherlands French: Pays-Bas German: Niederlande	Person: a Dutchman/woman Language: Dutch Adjective: Dutch	un Néerlandais néerlandais néerlandais	ein Niederländer / ein Niederländerin Niederländisch niederländisch
Sweden French: Suède German: Schweden	Person: a Swede Language: Swedish Adjective: Swedish	un Suédois suédois suédois	ein Schwede / eine Schwedin Schwedisch schwedisch
Finland French: Finlande German: Finnland	Person: a Finn Language: Finnish Adjective: Finnish	un Finlandais finnois finlandais	ein Finne / eine Finnin Finnisch finnisch
Czech Republic / Czechia French: République tchèque / Tchéquie Tschechische Republik / Tschechien	Person: a Czech Language: Czech Adjective: Czech	un(e) Tchèque (no suffix) tchèque tchèque (no suffix)	ein Tscheche / eine Tschechin Tschechisch tschechisch
Hungary French: Hongrie German: Ungarn	Person: a Hungarian Language: Hungarian Adjective: Hungarian	un Hongrois hongrois hongrois	ein Ungar / eine Ungarin Ungarisch ungarisch
Romania French: Roumanie German: Rumänien	Person: a Romanian Language: Romanian Adjective: Romanian	un Roumain roumain roumain	ein Rumäne / eine Rumänin Rumänisch rumänisch
Denmark French: Danemark German: Dänemark	Person: a Dane Language: Danish Adjective: Danish	un Danois danois danois	ein Däne / eine Dänin Dänisch dänisch
Greece French: Grèce German: Griechenland	Person: a Greek Language: Greek Adjective: Greek	un(e) Grec(que) grec grec(que)	ein Grieche / eine Griechin Griechisch griechisch
Poland French: Pologne German: Polen	Person: a Pole Language: Polish Adjective: Polish	un Polonais polonais polonais	ein Pole / eine Polin Polnisch polnisch

Postscript: coding tables in Discourse is a pain in the ass. Anyway, I find this interesting and hope others do too.

[LSLGuy]

@UDS1

Sometimes there’s a separate demonym (a Spaniard, a Pole, a Swede) and sometimes you just have to use the adjective to qualify an appropriate noun — a French man, an Irish person, a British citizen.

I’d say a Frenchman, an Irishman, and a Briton. At least assuming the French & Irish persons are known to be male. Conveniently, Briton is safely gender neutral.

And if those three walk into your bar, the correct response is “What is this; some kind of joke?”

[pulykamell]

@LSLGuy

I’d say a Frenchman, an Irishman, and a Briton.

“Briton” sounds quite dated to my ears (and the other two to some extent). “Brit” is what I’d use. Not sure I’ve ever heard “Briton” in conversation, but I’ve heard “Brit” quite often. Though it does have that clipped character to it that makes it sound a bit curt and dismissive.

[doreen]

@wolfman

“As a Japanese I would like to contribute…”
or
"Having lived my whole life since age 3 in the USA, I am troubled as a Chinese I need to say…

I’ve never heard or seen this - not even from people who speak English as a second or third language.

As a general rule, it seems to be the adjectives ending in “n” that can be used as a noun - Italian, German, American, Canadian, Mexican and so on. There are some exceptions that use the same word for the language, the adjective and the person - Greek , for example. There are also adjectives that can be collective demonyms but not singular - you wouldn’t say “an English” but “the English” is correct.

[LSLGuy]

“Brit” seems to me to be about like “Yank”. Not pejorative exactly, but not neutrally respectful either. Agree that “Briton” is sorta archaic.

IMO “Frenchman” and “Irishman” also are becoming dated due to being explicitly gendered. Even if you know the target is male, they still a bit off-key nowadays.

[pulykamell]

Yeah, my original message messaged that, but I edited that part out for some reason. I’m so used to avoiding “-man” endings that it sounds a little off these days.

[Kent_Clark]

I think it pretty much slid over from the Japanese/Chinese (plural) into the singular, and as @Chronos said in the first response, about the time that the singular “Jap” and “Chinaman” became unacceptable.

[Chronos]

I think of “Briton” as being a member of one specific tribe (as opposed to, say, the Picts or the Geats), which was mostly found in the isle of Great Britain, but partially also in what’s now northern France. “Brit” is the word for a modern resident of Great Britain.

[LSLGuy]

Happy birthday there @Chronos. Shame I just noticed a mere 3 hours before it comes to an end and your celebratory cake disappears for another year.

[UDS1]

I agree that Briton primarily refers to the Celtic inhabitants of (much of) Great Britain before and during the Roman occupation. It can be used to refer to a contemporary denizen of Great Britain but there’s a sense, when it is so used, that A Point Is Being Made; lots of British people who would happily identify as “British” would hesitate before calling themselfs “Britons”.

“Brit” is common but it’s informal; you wouldn’t use it in a formal context. Plus, it’s often pejorative, and therefore at risk of being understood as pejorative even when not so intended.

[jjakucyk]

Might this be correlated with increased prevalence of statements like “my dishwasher needs fixed” versus “needs fixing” or “needs to be fixed”? Maybe it’s completely unrelated, but it triggers my brain in the same way as hearing “as a Chinese”.