I’m starting to get the hang of this sport because it sems to be on quite often whenever I have time to watch the Winter Olympics.
But one thing I haven’t figured out is how the statistics are figured out.
I understand why the leads would have more draws than take-outs and the skips would be the reverse, but I can’t figure out what the numerators and denominators are for these percentages.
Percentages are based on subjective scoring of the success of each shot based on what was called.
If a specific takeout is called, say, a hit and roll, the shot must both hit and roll to get the maximum four points. If it hits and stays, it might be 3 or 2 points. If it misses entirely, it might be 0 points. So there’s no straight tie-out to something you can see on that stats page.
Don Duguid just said “it’s based on the four point system, but he didn’t explain further”.
What should be a good score for a skip?
Anything above 75% is a pretty good shooting percentage, anything below 50% is a disaster. But that’s a personal opinion, not a fact.
The reality is that the statistics exist to give TV analysts something to talk about. They’re not all that relevent to actual curlers, and they’re not generally kept at anything other than the highest level of play.
They don’t, for example, take into account one of the most important skills in curling - contingency planning. Skips often call shots with it in the back of their head ‘if he makes this, great, if he misses it, can we still get something good out of it?’ and when choosing between two relatively equal shots will pick the one with the most upside if the shot misses (whether upside is potential to do good things, or least likely to do harm). If you miss the called shot, even if the eventual result is better for your team than the called shot would have been, the stats mark you down for not making the called shot.
Thanks for the help.
Can I beg your indulgence then on one more question. For the leads, especially those who throw the first rock, what they can be scored on? Other than putting the stone in to a guarding position?
The leads can throw the rock anywhere, but normally with a 4-rock free guard zone, they tend to do a lot of guards/draws.
Percentagewise it’s weight, curl, line and overall position of the shot.
I haven’t watched a great deal of curling, but I never knew what they were talking about when they discussed the curling percentage. Why have I never heard them explain the way it is scored during the broadcasts? I’ve heard John Madden explain the intentional grounding rule in football about 350 billion times!
Maybe the CBC guys just assume every Canadian already knows.
Do they ever talk about this statistical scoring shot-by-shot? Like, “they’re giving him a 3 out of 4 for that shot, because it hit but it didn’t roll”. I’ve never heard that. I think it would add an interesting aspect.
Well the shot percentage is secondary to the score. You can have the most amazing skip shooting at 100% and still be loosing 8-4 in the 7th end.
It’s nice to hear that the third on team A is shooting 89% vs. team B’s 75% but commentators will flesh that out by saying “She’s having trouble with her delivery.” or “His weight has been spotty the past 3 ends.” Rarely will anyone dissect the shot along the lines of a scoring chart.
It’s actually better used as a coaching tool in my opinion.
So if NBC has three Canadians working the curling rink, who is the CBC using? I assume that Canada has a bigger stable of curling announcers.
Well NBS has Don Chevrier, Don Duguid and Elfi Schlegel while the CBC/TSN is using
Don Wittman Joan McCusker and Mike Harris. I think.
Because it’s not really a simple thing to explain, I’d guess. The actual scoring doesn’t make a ton of sense, even to people who understand curling.
On the other hand, they’ll happily explain Ferbey’s numbers system twice an end, so it’s not like slightly complicated subjects are forbidden.
I dunno, really. Maybe they just don’t think people care?
I think that most Canadians, even those who routinely watch curling, have only the vaguest idea of what the stats actually mean. I watched curling for a couple of years before I finally googled it.
There’s occasional discussion of how a shot might score, but not a lot. I’m not sure how quickly the scoring information is given to the broadcasters, because they don’t seem to have it in real time.
You can also score a 5 out of 4 for a fantastic shot. Usually saved for a run back triple take out and such.
The %'s are very misleading though. Part of the curling strategy is to put pressure on the other teams players by making them play the toughest shot. Most often the losing team had to throw the toughest shots and the winning team had slightly easier shots and the %'s will be in their favour accordingly.
I do have to disagree with Jaquilynne slightly in that the points are not that subjective. There are rules and guidelines for each tye of shot that have been spelled out for all the scorers. Usually there are 3 scorers per game who arrive average out for each score. There is still a certain amount of subjectivity but not as much as one might think.
The leads rocks and %'s are the most difficult to judge (Imho) because each team has different tolerances for where they might want their first two rocks to be. Who is ahead and by how much can also alter the upside or downside of each throw. Some teams for example like guards very tight to the rings and if the slip into the rings it isn’t too bad for their strategy. Other teams want that rock out front at all costs.
Grey makes the best point though. %‘s are much more useful as a coaching tool than as an accurate portrayal of how one curler is throwing that day. Over a year of curling you can really see if a person throws one turn better than the other or if they hit better than draw etc… In one game it doesn’'t mean much.
on another note people are coming up with all sorts of new curling statistics these days.
One of them is sweeping %. It’s basically the % of time the sweepers are sweeping a players shots. There’s a lot of discussion about it but basically somehting close to 50% is good because then your shots are fairly close to what was asked. If you have 0 sweeping or 100% sweeping it means you have missed the shot or almost missed the shot. Of course there’s no number for how hard the sweepers are sweeping so again the % should be taken for instructional info only.
There are also points scored with last rock, without last rock, holding opponent to 1 without last rock etc… tons of potentially useful and potentially boring info out there.
Then there’s always measuring Russ Howards Decibel level and % of voice he’ll have left by the end of the week. 