CV boot "leak" - opinions? Hey, Rick?

In My Humble Opinion
1

So my daughter’s '03 Subaru is up for an oil change, and she’s responsible for routine stuff, so she finds a local $20 coupon and gets the oil changed, even remembering to tell them it’s ONLY 4.25 quarts, guys.

And they tell her the CV boot is cracked and leaking and write a quote for the axle replacement.

Which is a little strange, as the car had new axles put in when we bought it (kind of cheap ones - I wish the mechanic/dealer had knocked a little off the price instead so I could put quality ones in myself, instead, but okay) and it only has 3,000 miles on them.

And I was under the car a couple of days ago, replacing an O2 sensor, and didn’t see anything but a damned clean 100k Subie under there. That is, by the way, the first time anyone has been under the car since we bought it.

And the grease spatter is fairly sparse and all fresh - no old, no runs, no dirt, just one ring of fresh blobs, about, oh, ten miles’ worth in my jackleg opinion. What a coinkydink… it’s about ten miles to the shop where the oil change was done.

And what a funny-looking “tear” it is, too! If I didn’t know better I’d say it looks like the tip of a quarter-inch screwdriver. But what would a screwdriver be doing up in the folds of an axle boot?

Opinions solicited. Photos are here, showing the spatter inside the wheel and the best shot I have of the “tear.”

Failed boot that just happened to fail within +20 -0 miles of the oil change?

Or punctured? Answers by morning would be appreciated so I can go talk to the nice shop owner. Thanks.

2

Are you sure they did all four axles? That’s not normally something you’d do as routine maintenance, although here in the Rocky Mountain land 'o beater Subarus I’ve certainly seen some driving around with 8 torn boots. Without the backstory, I’d say that looks like a regular tear. That little trench down in the folds is usually where they start to come apart. It looks like there’s maybe some cracking to either side of the hole itself-- if you rotate the boot around and flex it a bit is there any other evidence of that in that same fold?

You might go back and see if the place that put the axles in will fix it, since I’m guessing the part should still be under warranty, although who knows how that’ll actually work with the dealer/mechanic setup. Otherwise, you caught it soon enough that getting the boot changed and the joint repacked should be a safe bet, which might save you some money.

3

At first I did think it looked like the right size for a screwdriver, but I agree with GreasyJack that if you look to both sides of it, you can see signs of cracking. Maybe they just happened to notice it, maybe they cracked it (even by accident) the rest of they way when they looked at it.

ETA, I have no idea if they’re recommended of not, but they do make two part CV boots that you can put on without pulling the axle if you wanted to attempt the job at home.

4

The car on the lot had one bad front axle, noted by a Subaru dealer when they did head gaskets and timing belts. I had planned to replace both axles myself with good-quality units, but then, the dealer/mechanic replaced both of them as part of the final safety work. Chinese junk, but I figured it bought me a year before I had to worry about it.

I was just under there three days ago and looked right at the boot/wheel area. Nothing. The utter coincidence of timing, and given that my 21yo daughter took the car in (victim in bay 2!) and the spatter of no more than 30-40 miles… I try not to suspect established merchants, but this is just too too.

There are slight cracks like you see at the furthest right several places around the boot, but only when I spread it open pretty wide. That perfectly square separation… if you and maybe Rick say it’s normal-looking, I’ll let it go, but it looks exactly like screwdriver-through-rubber, which I’ve seen a number of times and even done a few times myself (to old hoses). Should even a cheap-axle boot, driven pretty gently, fail in 3000 miles?

5

So are you totally sure it was both of the front axles they changed? It wasn’t that they changed the bad front one and then maybe found some problems with one of the rear ones?

Otherwise, yeah, even a cheap CV boot should last longer than 3,000 miles but they don’t necessarily. You can just get really unlucky with a piece of road debris, or also having some alignment or suspension issues can cause them to wear prematurely.

Of course, since you’re going to at least have to change the boot anyways, you could try punching a hole in the other side of the boot yourself and compare what it looks like. You might want to figure out if there’s any chance of a warranty repair first!

6

If the car runs fine then cut off the boot and install a split boot. The cost is negligible and anyone can do it.

7

I had some pretty good luck with Chinese axles FWIW
Anyway assuming you wiped the area near the hole clean it would appear that the boot is failing probably due a fault from when the boot was made.
You might want to talk to the shop that did the install, their supplier might offer a parts warranty.

8

I absolutely do *not *trust quick oil change places. When I would take my car to one, they’d *always *find something else wrong, and I knew it was pure BS when they started saying something about the catalytic converter on my Diesel Jetta… :rolleyes: I had to tell my widowed mother to quit going to the one near her because they were ripping her off. It’s funny how much money she’s saved by going to a local mechanic rather than using one of those up-selling franchises!

Then there was the time I drove my car thru a car wash on a road trip (single female with out-of-state tags obviously packed for a move) and the “helpful” attendant pointed out that I had a hole in my tire that was hissing furiously!! :eek: He kindly directed me to the adjacent garage for a repair. I don’t think he was too happy that I pulled into an empty parking place and changed my own tire, before going on my way. I’m sure it was a coincidence that my relatively new tires got a puncture in that car wash.

Anyway, I’m with you - it seems suspicious to me.

9

I agree that the timing seems suspicious, but coincidences do happen.

If it were a puncture from a screwdriver, I’d expect the sides of the hole to go in. The cracking nearby and the fact that the edges of the hole appear to pooch out lead me to believe it wasn’t a malicious puncture.

10

Thanks, all. I’ve decided to let it pass - I will attempt a patch with RTV this weekend to buy some time and keep the grease spatter from getting too bad until I can replace both axles with quality units sometime this summer. (Sometimes a patch works, most times it doesn’t… but it’s five minutes on the lift to try.)

I really should get some better shots of the hole. I was trying to combine being rather greasy (I was in a hurry to get a look and didn’t work as tidily as usual) and using my Note II for pix… not a good combination. The hole looks a LOT more pushed-in when I’m not spreading the boot ribbing so widely.

But it’s not nearly as obvious as I first felt, and all hangs on the close proximity in time, new-ish axles, etc. rather than absolute evidence. Won’t be going back to that shop - they spent the entire 20 minutes trying to upsell my daughter on useless services and vague warnings about problems. The car is in exceptional condition for 100k (hey, it’s a well-treated Subaru!) and needs nothing at present. Well, except for a new CV boot. :mad:

11

Well, if they were trying to sell the OP on an axle repair, they were probably at least a few notches above the local quick change place. That’s usually the idea of actual mechanic shops pushing cheap oil changes-- get 'em in the door and try to find other stuff to fix. Hopefully not create other things to fix, though! In some ways it’s almost a little bit worse because you know all the things the high school kid at the quick lube is going to try to upsell you on are probably bogus, but when it’s an actual mechanic doing it…

(Also, diesel VW’s have had catalytic converters since I think sometime in the mid 90’s.)

12

Ours was an '86, and I know it didn’t convert its catalytics. :smiley:

13

But can it convert it’s metrics?

14

I worked in a tire place for a little while after the Army, before I went back into interpreting, so I have seen a lot of CV boots, including one that we had to replace for a customer, because a dipsh!t who got fired after just two weeks actually did puncture it. It didn’t look like that. That looks like wear. If it was helped along by anything, it was having something corrosive, or a rock, or something, trapped in the folds, or it was just a manufacturing defect-- a thin spot in the silicon, or rubber.

I can tell you that this is something that shouldn’t wait. You really should replace the boot ASAP, even if it’s your intention to replace the whole joint later.

15

they make boots that are in 2 pieces so you can attach them without taking the axle off. It’s easy to do and you’re done messing with it.

16

How do these work? I assume you wrap it around the CV joint? Is there some sort of glue to seal the edges? (I’m trying to imagine what they look like).

17

IMO (checks forum - yep) and in my experience, CV boots are the thing that unscrupulous workshops will most commonly screw the customer on.
Back when I had my own car and always took it to a cheap place for servicing and MOT, it was always fucking ‘CV boots holed and leaking’ or ‘steering rack gaiters split’. Every time, without fail.

Average consumers don’t know what either of the above things even are, so it’s a relatively safe thing to scam someone on.

18

They’re split on one side and screw together.
Here’s an example.
The kit looks like it includes sealer but it’s been awhile since I’ve put one on. Getting the old boot off is most of the battle.

19

Well, one thing is that a busted CV or steering boot can go for a lonnnnnnnng time before it actually renders the vehicle inoperable, so there are quite a lot of cars rolling around with these problems. But when they do finally cause the CV joint or steering rack to fail, it can cause a really serious accident. They’re exactly the sort of usually-ignored safety issue that periodic inspections are good for. (Although that said, I’m not familiar with the favored practices of unscrupulous mechanics on that side of the pond.)

I think the substance included with that kit is the replacement grease. When you have the boot off, you’re supposed to thoroughly clean the joint and repack it. I have seen ones that just glue together though. I’ve generally not had a whole lot of luck with split boots, although to be fair I’ve mostly used them on IFS 4x4’s, so that’s probably a bit heavier service than most. I do agree a split boot would be better than trying to plug the hole with RTV sealant.

20

I disagree. I’ve seen CV joints with torn boots go quite a while – years in some cases – before they start making noise, and I’ve seen joints make noise for over a year without breaking. There is no urgency to the situation. And if the intent is to replace the axles in the future, there is simply no reason to replace a torn boot beforehand, unless you can’t stand the sight of grease.

Back when it cost quite a bit more to replace a CV joint than to replace a torn boot (with new CV joints being the only repair option), it was a cost-saving measure to replace torn boots as soon as feasible. Nowadays with the standard repair being replacement of the axle with a reman unit, which often doesn’t cost much more than replacing a boot, it can be more cost-effective to wait until it seems about to break.