I’m a recreational cyclist. I ride to work and on the way there is a 4 way stop. In each direction there is a left turn lane and a bike lane, along with the regular car lane. Visibility when approaching the intersection is at least several blocks in every direction.
As I’m approaching this intersection, typically around 15 or 20 mph (speed limit is 25mph), if I have right of way and there is no danger of an approaching car smashing me, I don’t come to a complete stop. I will slow down if a car is approaching to be sure the car won’t run the stop sign and run into me, but otherwise I just go. If I don’t have right of way, I will slow down but not necessarily stop. If he car goes, I can go after that. If the car stops and waits to see what I’ll do, I stop and let them go.
If there is more than 1 car, I have to judge who has right of way just like I was a car.
Would you consider this me being one of those jerk cyclists everyone is complaining about?
You can’t “have the right of way” at a 4 way stop. At least not before you’ve come to a complete stop. If you run stop signs you are a jerk whether you’re a cyclist or a motorist. Cyclists are slightly bigger jerks because nobody who runs a stop sign in their car tries to defend it the way cyclists do. They’re pretty up front about being assholes. I can respect that a little more than ridiculous arguments about momentum or having the right of way without coming to a complete stop.
Right, but like I said in my post, you have the right of way only after stopping. **cmosdes **specifically talked about not coming to a complete stop because he has the right of way. That’s an impossibility - if you haven’t stopped completely you do not have the right of way.
It’s a stop sign, not a ‘do whatever suits you’ sign!
Don’t they teach kids, first learning to ride, to always stop at ALL stop signs? I think one of the first things they teach!
I frequently ride my bike late at night, through a deserted city, where I can see for blocks that no cars are coming. If I’m alone at an empty intersection with a red light, I still stop! (Sometimes I proceed through), but I always stop.
And no matter how deserted the streets, if there is another car at the light, say in the same lane as me, I wait it out with the car, for the light to change, before proceeding. So as not to be an asshole.
I might be able to get on board with the rest, maybe, but you absolutely have to come to a stop. It’s right there, on the sign. Stop.
Thanks for your views on this. I assume you don’t cycle much, which is fine because I am looking for varied opinions. Would it be safe to assume that every time you are approaching a 4 way stop and there are any other cars around, even ones that are at least 30 feet away from the intersection and slowing down, that you come to a complete stop before proceeding?
I’m not trying to cast aspersions. There is a reason this isn’t in the pit. I’m looking for opinions, not debate or rancor.
You seem to have conflated two traffic control devices; a stop sign and a light. In my situation it is a stop sign.
Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say you proceed through after coming to a complete stop? Is that at a stop light (is it blinking or solid) or a stop sign?
Absolutely. Every single time. Incidentally, a car that’s 30 feet from the intersection and slowing to a stop looks an awful lot like a car that’s 30 feet from the intersection and slowing down so it can drive through it without stopping. At 10-20 mph the car will have traveled the 30 feet and be in the intersection in 1-1.5 seconds. That seems awfully reckless to me.
And if you want to run your bike on the sidewalk, please don’t - we’re trying to walk on the sidewalks. I have enough trouble crossing the streets and everyone trying to kill me while I do so; I don’t need vehicles on the sidewalks trying to kill me, too.
If you’re asking if a lot of cars don’t stop for stop signs, based on my observations in Calgary, I’d say emphatically YES! There’s a three-way stop down the street from my house where people don’t even slow down to drive through it.
No, I don’t assume bikes have special privileges. Far from it. But I see cars come to a rolling stop at stop signs all the time.
I’d prefer to keep this discussion to this situation so this doesn’t degrade into the typical bike vs. car wranglings that usually happen. There are asshole cyclists that we’ve all seen and idiot drivers. But to answer your question, I have a one bright head lamp (that I can set to blinking or solid) and two rear lights, both of which I leave as blinking, each on a different blink pattern.
I’ve lived in a very rural area and a large town/small city of about 100,000 where there’s a regular grid system and lots of 4 way stops. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a motorist blow through a 4 way stop in the city.
Out in the country the townships often put up “all way” stops that I have to admit seem completely insane. Like an all-way stop where a minor country road meets a major country road and if it were up to me, I’d think only the minor road needs to stop.
Even then, maybe 1 in 10 cars drive through without stopping and most of the time they’re young teenage drivers who you expect to be reckless.
Your ‘privileged’ attitude comes through loud and clear, and I don’t like it.
Another thing that gets my goat is people who walk or run in the street. A few months ago I was pulling out of the driveway from work and just as I did a runner appeared from behind the van that was parked on the curb on my side. I could not see the runner because he had been hidden by the van and the cars behind it. I almost hit him. Yes, I did stop at the end of the driveway. Had the runner been on the sidewalk I would have been able to see him, but this idiot doesn’t understand physics!
I’m a cyclist too. During the day, if it’s a clear intersection I’ll probably do a California stop – brake a bit, look a bit, and keep going. This is illegal. I’m being an asshole. I don’t care. Guess what? I jaywalk too.
If there is any doubt about visibility (such as a blind 4-way with cars blocking my view of the street), I will stop. If I hear any cars I will stop. If it’s at night I will stop. Both for my safety and theirs.
If there is another car coming, or next to me, I will stop and wait because to do otherwise would be rude – I’d be skipping their right of way. But if there are no cars, the law be damned, we’re not robots and I can take a calculated risk. The most that’ll likely happen is that some driver a quarter mile away will grumpily think “There goes one of 'ern darned bikers again!! Always running the stop signs like they own the road!!” Whatever.
I stick to bike lanes. I let cars go first at stop signs. I tend to boycott Critical Mass rides (in already bike-friendly cities). They’re rude and obnoxious for drivers. THAT’s assholeish behavior, purposely coming together to take over entire streets and slow down traffic for no real reason when the drivers already respect you enough. Back to stop signs: I know we all share the road, but performing a charade for the Invisible Hand of the Law when the prospect for damage is just so low – if I run a stop and a kid runs out, I’ll what, bruise them a little? – just seems like a waste of time. So sue me. Sorry.
It isn’t hard for me to understand. You used the word “light” in your first post. Your first two sentences used the word sign, your next two used light, and the last used sign.
Thanks for your view on the stop sign situation.
My experience tells me cars, rarely, come to a full stop at a stop sign. Others seem to feel most cars come to full stops. What is your experience with cars at stop signs?