I still have to stop for stop signs in my car if no one is around. Why shouldn’t the same go for cyclists?
I don’t always come to a complete stop in my car, either, if there is clearly no one else around.
Furthermore, I have no problem with cops giving cyclists tickets if they run stop signs or lights.
The momentum argument isn’t because it saves energy, it is because it saves effort. Biking is already difficult. Having to constantly slow down and speed up just makes it that much more difficult. Think about the difference between trying to ride up a hill vs. riding on flat ground. I’m not saying this is a reason to make running stop signs and lights legal. I am saying that getting back up to speed on a bike is not as trivial as stepping on a gas pedal.
As Knorf points out, bicyclists should be given a ticket if caught, just like you should get a ticket if you go over the speed limit. But there are degrees to the recklessness. Just like you wouldn’t expect to get a ticket for going 5mph over the speed limit, I wouldn’t expect to get a ticket for running a stop sign on my bike if it were clear that no other traffic (vehicle, pedestrian and bike) were around.
I’m not trying to condone the obvious idiots who run stop signs and lights and cause near accidents all the time. Anyone on the road who think the rules don’t apply to them is an idiot. Anyone who ignores the rules of the road and as a result endangers not only themselves but others is an even bigger idiot. But surely we can agree that there are times when breaking the law isn’t by definition a self-absorbed act by a self-righteous asshole.
In a car you lose perhaps 10 seconds and a small amount of gas having to slow down and speed up. On a bike, you probably lose a similar amount of time but you also have to extend a great deal more effort. This isn’t a reason to make running stop signs and lights on a bike legal, but I do think it is a reason to give a bit of leniency for it.
As my final argument, I’ll say that there are times when the bike lane ends up in the middle of the road around here. I don’t want my ass hanging out in the middle of that road as some driver is coming up behind me. I’d rather come up to the line, check for cross traffic and go. Bikes are all but invisible and I don’t want to be there if I don’t have to be.
In my EMT days it was “Job Security” Mototcycle riders generally being propelled at higher velocities were more prone to the organ donors title.
The amount of ignorance in this thread is appalling. I probably have more miles cycling in an urban environment than the next five posters on this board, and probably more miles driving than all but a very few of you, and bicyclists rolling stop signs is absolutely not a problem, and should be legal. In fact, it IS legal in Idaho. Oregon is considering it as well, as should other states. Here is a short video explaining the issue:
Of all the problems bicyclists have, rolling stops is a non-issue. Here are the three biggest issues cyclists face:
[ul]
[li]People opening their driver’s side doors without checking for traffic.[/li][li]People pulling partly out of parking spaces before checking for traffic.[/li][li]People overtaking bicyclists then turning right into a driveway or onto a cross street.[/li][/ul]
Those are the big three, and they probably account for 75% of the injuries and fatalities that bicyclists suffer in collisions with motorists. Last night I rode LESS THAN FIVE MILES in traffic and I encountered TWO of them.
I live in the Burbank/Glendale area of Southern California, and mainly due to the large number of Armenians, many of whom are among the most heedless and aggressive drivers I have ever encountered, this is one of the most dangerous places you can ride a bike.
As I started my ride, less than a half mile from my house, one of these brainiacs, without so much as a turn signal, suddenly decided to pull into Trader Joe’s immediately after passing me. They must have seen me, I have an extremely bright rear flasher that is noticeable in broad daylight, and it was already dark. I had to hit the brakes hard, nearly pitching over, and almost didn’t clear the rear of their vehicle.
Less than half a mile later, some guy lunges halfway out of his parking space, ACROSS A BIKE LANE, before checking to see if traffic was clear. As he craned over to peer through his side window to FINALLY check for oncoming traffic, I saw his startled face as he saw me coming right at him. If he had checked his mirror, he certainly would have seen me as I have an extremely bright flashing headlight. I had to swerve out of the bike lane and into the traffic lane to avoid hitting his vehicle. I was lucky nobody was coming up from behind me, or I would have been toast.
The thing most cyclists live in fear of the most, however, is getting “doored”. It only happened to me once, and thankfully I wasn’t hurt at all. I was moving pretty slow. I bounced off the door into the driver’s lap, my head wedged between the steering wheel and the driver, my face mashed into her ample breasts. 
I extricated myself and told her “You really should check your mirror before flinging open your door”. She was pretty embarrassed, and promised that she would. 
Rolling a stop sign is NOT a safety issue, if done properly. It is not dangerous for the cyclist, motorists, or pedestrians. There is a movement to legalize it, and it has already happened in some jurisdictions.
Usually I confine my riding to bike paths, although those have their own dangers. Sometimes I have no choice but to ride in the street if I need to get somewhere in particular. Mostly these days I ride in the middle of the night, when there is nobody around. It is the only time I feel really safe in this area.
I really don’t get the resentment that a lot of drivers have expressed in this thread over this issue. A lot of drivers seem to have irrational anger towards cyclists. Some even decide to act on that anger.
This man faces up to ten years in prison, and we are all watching to see what his sentence will be on January 8th. I hope he gets some serious time.
In any case, this anger is misplaced. We have a right to share the road and most of us do our best to stay out of your way. Every mile we ride means more gas for you motorists, less wear and tear on the roads, cleaner air for all of us, and since we often don’t even occupy a lane unless we have to for our own safety, less traffic.
So, drivers, give us a break. Check your mirror before you open your door or start to pull out of a space, and please don’t suddenly turn right after passing us. I, in turn, will yield right of way to you at any stop sign, as most cyclists in their right mind do.
What I do at stop signs when you are not ready to proceed through the intersection, is none of your damn business. I have never hit a pedestrian, or another vehicle, in thousands of miles of cycling. Please stop using this old saw to get yourself het up about those damn bicyclists, and realize that the few crazies that everyone seems to have an anecdote about are not representative of the majority of cyclists.
I respect your perspective and experience and agree with nearly everything you’ve said. However, there is one reality that bicyclists need to face.
I may not have as many miles on a bike as you but I have been driving a car for 36 years and riding a bike as long, still riding on streets and bike paths. Throw in riding a motorcycle for 15 years.
Even though I am sympathetic to cyclists, when I am stopped at a red light in my car and a bike blows past me through the intersection, it gets me a little mad. This anger has nothing to do with a rational assessment of whether the cyclist checked out the safety of the situation before he proceeded, or whether the driver was inconvenienced. It is a perception that the cyclist violated the rules that the driver must follow.
Every day in my car, I have situations where it would be quicker, more efficient, easier, and safe to violate traffic laws. But I don’t. Why can cyclists?
You may come to your own conclusion as to whether or not the driver’s reaction is correct, rational, well-informed, what-have-you. Regardless, cyclists should be out there making friends if they’re going to, in the same breath, ask for consideration of drivers for making a special point to check their mirrors, “share the road,” etc.
Road sharing can’t be one-sided.
(Anger to the point of assault is never justified under any circumstances, however.)
Exactly. When I’m out on the roads as a cyclist, I do my best to minimize causing road rage in other people. I’m not going to take safety risks in order to do so, but when it’s something relatively easy like stopping at a stop sign, it’s no problem.
I am not talking about red lights, and even at a stop sign, I would not “blow” past you. You might suddenly make a right turn in front of me without a signal, in which case i am SOL. I am talking about rolling a stop sign at an intersection in a residential neighborhood, where I have good visibility of any approaching traffic. If there is a car already stopped at the intersection, I always yield right of way.
If i get to an intersection first, and would have the right of way even if i stopped, i will roll the stop, after i have ascertained that you are indeed stopping as required. I think this is the thing that gets a lot of motorists upset. What upsets me, is if I DO stop, even if I am there first and have the right of way, the motorist will often pull out in front of ME because they CAN. I have seen this a lot. I hope this explanation clears it up for you. I always stop at red lights, even if there is nobody around. Watch the video I linked for a better understanding.
I was responding generally to why cyclists should be good law-abiding road citizens to peacefully co-exist with cars, moreso than a point-by-point response to your post. For the specific situations you just described, I wouldn’t really object.
And there certainly are some cyclists who seem to get off on messing with people and screwing with motorists. The Critical Mass retards come to mind. These types make it worse for all of us.
It is problem when bicyclists roll through stop signs, when they should be stopping, yielding the right of way to cars which are there first. Yes, I’ve seen this situation, and it doesn’t help your credibility to deny that it occurs. It also certainly shouldn’t be legal to run stop signs in that situation.
IMHO one should bike ( and drive for that matter) reasonably, on a bike it is sometimes reasonable to totally blow a stop sign (sometimes, though much rarer in a car also).
Humans are not suppose to live by a hard code but live together, caring for each other. The traffic code has very much replaced the care for fellow drivers, which established rights (rights of way), and when rights are violated people get angry, instead of working together.
In order to work together, we need to have a reasonable set of rules that all vehicles on the road are following. That way we can all reasonably expect those around us to act in a certain way, and we will react accordingly. That’s what makes the flow of traffic work. I reasonably expect cars to drive on the right side of the road, not be coming head on on a one way street, stop at red lights and stop signs and not drive on the sidewalk. I can’t reasonably expect cyclists to do the same because the VAST majority of cyclists I see do not.
As it stands, I have no idea what a cyclist is going to do. In San Francisco, I will stand on a street corner with with a four way stop and give you 10:1 odds, and tell you that the cyclist will not stop at the stop sign or red light regardless of traffic. Hell, I’ll give 20:1 as I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen it.
As such, I can’t reasonably treat any cyclists the same way as car drivers, who by my experience I can reasonably expect to stop at the stop sign. So, even if by the law, they are vehicles, in reality they are something else and will be treated accordingly.
Now, this means that I essentially cede the right of way at a stop sign to the cyclist who isn’t going to stop anyway. It also means that I will do my damndest to get around and past you because you are unpredictable and if I don’t know what you’re going to do, I’d just as soon have you in my rear view mirror.
In my state, a bicyclist must get off their bike at an intersection, and walk their bike across the street as a pedestrian.
I’m going to have to call you on that. You basically just said that, I have an idea, and although I have no idea if it makes any sense, I’m going to promote it anyways. It’s somebody else’s job to make my idea work.
Your idea is worthless if you don’t have any method of making it work.
Don’t rewrite my words for me, this isn’t Great Debates. It’s not just my idea, and it becomes closer to reality with every careless bike rider.
A plan/bill has all ready been introduced into the legislature of my state, into bill form. And yes, the details are the legislatures problem. It’s all in the link below, including that it applies to persons over the age of 18. The plan would be administered by the Dept of Transportation, and that it only applies to bikes driven on public highways. If you would care to actually read the link I previously provided:
Something like this will eventually pass.
Cite? I’ve never heard of a law requiring this.
It’s a minor miracle that he was convicted at all. Over in North Carolina, one man got a whopping four month sentence for attempted murder. Barely a crime at all*, since the victim was only a cyclist (who, incidentally, was riding with his four year old son).
*Don’t mistake my tone as being serious. I’m a cyclist. This conviction is terrifying.
May I suggests going to a country without all the traffic rules and signs that we typically have here. My experience is that traffic moved better and driving is more relaxed. None of the edging out that drivers typically do here to maintain their rights.
People work together because they see it is to their advantage.
Note how you say you would have to give up your right, rights cause anger and division and even a form of revenge (trying to get ahead of him).
That rider does pick up on those attitudes (if anything from aggressive acceleration to pass) and that makes him want to ignore your rights more.
You’re joking, right? I’ve been to other countries with lax driving rules. Relaxed is not the word to use. Frantic, maybe. Not relaxed. Everything was about edging out other drivers and gaining advantage.
Thanks, I’ll take laws over that.