Real apes have no tails. That’s not at all unusual.
As for your two options, I don’t think anyone is claiming that WotC deliberately went about trying to create a racist image. Rather, the complaint is that they carelessly allowed their artist to make an illustration that reflects some unfortunate minstrel stereotypes.
So, your #2, except not only do the images not look like flying squirrels, they look like capering monkeys.
True, but they were accused of being minstrel monkeys not bardic apes.
So, it is an accident? Then what’s the beef? No one was racist, no one was a bigot, no one deliberately did a image that others can misconstrue. Geez, you mean the staff at WotC are humans that make a mistake once in a while? And they apologized even.
On their feet?
I don’t think so, no.
No, they’re not. They’re not pointed at all, they’re lower down on the side of the head, not furry, have lobes - in what way are they at all like a squirrel’s, please?
Yet you knew exactly which one I was talking about.
I’m not debating you.
Apes are monkeys. Anyone who says different has failed cladistics.
None. What’s your point? No flying squirrel has patagia like that, either.
Sure, now.
Strawman argument is full of straw.
Are you talking to a mirror?
People who don’t recognize a false dichotomy when they propose one shouldn’t try and play with sharp instruments.
BTW, this is the Hadozee description from OG Spelljammer. The word “ape” is all over it. Hell, it starts ‘Called “deck apes”, hadozee are indeed ape-like’
This is the one from the controversial release - I see exactly zero use of the word “flying squirrel” there.
So I’m going to retract this:
and say “Cite?”
Oh, and this:
I’m unaware that WotC had a stable of in-house artists for things like this, as far as I was aware they just used freelancers.
Perhaps you’d care to enlighten me by giving this “house artist”[sic] a name? Since you are buds with all the WotC contributors and all.
Good catch, @MrDibble! Here’s his original claim–and given how this thread has gone, I feel collectively ashamed that none of us asked him to prove this claim in the first place.
@DrDeth, on what are you basing this categorical claim?
Becauseif there’s one thing racists are known for, it is their strict devotion to scientific accuracy.
When you do something racist by mistake, the civilized thing to do is to apologize and try to do better in the future, like WOTC did. You don’t insist that you’ve done nothing wrong and dig your head in the sand, like you’ve been doing.
I’m not gonna just sit here, getting lectured on cladistics by a fish!
DrDeth is either incapable of understanding the concept and effect of implicit bias, or he rejects its existence.
This.
WofC has not been accused of nafarious evil in this thread. It’s been accused of inadvertent racism due to implicit bias. Something we should all strive to recognize and avoid. Something we should not strenuously defend, which seems to be your take.
@puzzlegal, going to assume the “your” in “your take” there is @DrDeth not @Babale
Absolutely. I was agreeing with @Babale in their critique of @DrDeth’s stance here. Sorry if that’s unclear. I’m bad at pronouns.
Exactly this and I am not sure how it isn’t obvious.
He knows this. It’s been explained over and over. Just quoting myself:
He is one of the many people in our society who does not believe there is any such thing as inherent or systemic racism. If you can’t show that this wasn’t done by Wizards of the Coast or its employees with the specific knowledge and intent that it be racist, then, from his point of view, the rest of us should just sit down and shut up because no racism here.
I mean, that’s part of it–but there’s also this ludicrous claim that they’re flying squirrel ergo not racist, which is not a claim that can be made, or taken, seriously, even by a bunch of hopeless nerds like anyone still discussing the issue.
One thing that happens, when possible racism is pointed out, is that others get hyperdefensive, and start looking for any possible explanation for why there can’t possibly be racism in the thing they like. They’ll DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender), claiming that whoever pointed out the racism is the real racist. They’ll come up with ridiculous theories, pull in irrelevancies, claim authority where they have none. They’ll do anything rather than admit that a problem might exist.
Going forward I’m going to call this the “flying squirrel defense,” in honor of this thread.
Looks like WotC are taking lessons learned to heart. Good.
“every word, illustration, and map must be reviewed by multiple outside cultural consultants”
The new inclusion-review process applies to not only products in development but also reprints
Sometimes the Free Market DOES work! Good job WOTC, and good job community for demanding this
The creator of Gloomhaven went through a similar process last year for the upcoming expansion, Frosthaven. He lays out his motivation and experience with the process in a blog post. His concerns weren’t just with biases in the story, races, and characters, but also the requirement the characters support those biases in order to progress.
Here is the blog post for anyone that is interested:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/frosthaven/frosthaven/posts/3185807
Argle garble woke capitalism argle bargle hive mind.
But yeah, this is exactly how it should be.
