Since we’ve got all these fundamentalist Christians and atheists here on this board, I thought I’d start a debate about D&D and other role playing games. What are your beliefs about such things? If you’re a fundamentalist and you think D&D is evil, then I suggest you read this before posting:
http://members.aol.com/MarkJYoung/confess.html
Let the debate begin!
RickSummon
High Priest of the Sacred Disks (DVD)
Visit the Temple of the Sacred Disks at:
http://www.geocities.com/rick_summon/
Personally I always thought the D&D=evil position was just a bunch of hyperbole.
Claiming D&D, music, movies, TV or any other medium forces otherwise normal individuals to engage in self-damaging or antisocial acts appears to me to be a process of rationalization, wherein the responsibility for behavior is removed from the individual.
Let’s not forget Dark Dungeons, the Chick Tract[TM] about this very topic:
This is one of the very things that first made me realize that Christianity had some… problem children. I played D&D for years and years, and I had not a few fundies telling me how Satanic and evil it was, how it was a tool used by Satan to try and trap my immortal soul. The attitudes expressed in that Chick Tract reflect the mood of the eighties: Satan worshipers sacrificing babies, cults of devil worshippers methodically molesting kids in daycare centers, and the usual fundie paranoia. What is sad is that either these people are so incredibly paranoid that they actually believe this garbage, and that the originators of this stuff have to so patently misrepresent D&D in order to prop up their faith.
And if you really wanna see what happens when D&D players exploit the limitations of the game-rules to their utmost, read The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters. Heh. One of my personal favorites. 
We have already established that there are intolerant assholes in every religion, Christianity included. At least they don’t put you to death for possessing a copy.
From my experiance, attending a fundamentalist Christian school, I have found that fundamentalists feel threatened by any show of imagination or fantasy.
Dungeons and Dragons, along with all role-playign gams are nothing but evil. They encourage evil, liscencious, and occultic behavior, and only lead people into a life of sin. They have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
quote:
Oh, I thought those WERE redeeming qualities. :DBefore the jokes start, that’s “role-playing games,” not “gams.”
andros wrote:
Please tell me you were joking, andros! I played Champions[TM], a super-hero role-playing game, for many years as an adolescent and young-adult. The point was to fight evil villains. Licentiousness didn’t even enter into the picture. The occult was only important if one of the characters had magic powers, and even then those magic powers were laid out in ho-hum matter-of-fact fashion with straightforward, predictable game mechanics. No one thought, or was inclined to think, that the super-powers their characters possessed could be possessed by a real person.
Now stop dissin’ role-playing games, or you’ll get a 20d6 Armor-Piercing No-Normal-Defense Energy Blast up your nose!
Uh-oh tracer!
You mentioned the M-word. I betcha someone will be claiming that you are Satan’s Own Son before too long.
I can’t say anything about D&D because I have never played it. I only know what I have heard. (Nothing good). However I will not judge people because they play a game. I do not believe that ANY game can cause a person to do anything that that person does not want to do. If a person played some game that had him murdering other people, unless he mad murderous tendencies, he would not do it.
I have played video games that are RPG’s. IE: Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy III, Final Fantasy 7. I don’t go around casting spells on people or calling down some spirit. I look on it as hamless fun. But that is me.
A game causing a person to do what is in the game is a lot like saying that a person that was beat up and abused as a kid will grow up to do the same. BUNK!! IMHO
Out of curiosity, what bad things did you hear about D&D?
Well, andros, the mechanics I’ve met have tended to behave like hell-spawned puppies.
Have we forgotten so quickly the message of the 1982 made-for-TV movie Mazes And Monsters? Academy award winner Tom Hanks stars in his most important role ever as Robbie, a young student drawn hopelessly into a permanent fantasy world once he starts playing what seems like ‘just a game’. It becomes too difficult for Robbie’s mind to distinguish what is real and what is a medieval Tolkien-inspired world of mazes, monsters, and mazes. Monsters. In mazes. Monsters, too, maze-monsters in monster mazes. The game is just too powerful, it takes over your mind; the message of this danger is clear when Robbie is left believing his parents to be kind and gentle owners of the tavern where all his adventures begin.
Did this landmark film not make it clear how playing these games obviously leads to mental instability? I thought there was an episode of “Misfits of Science” that drove home the point several years later, just to remind us. This should be required viewing for our children! They must be protected! The devil doesn’t enter into it. It destroys the mindIt’s just too hard in this modern world to know what’s an orc, and what’s a loaf of Wonder Bread. What’s a dungeon, and what’s a chest of drawers? No one knows anymore. The games must end.
panama jack
let there be sanity in the world, please.
See andros’ post above. Pretty much sums up what I have heard. But like I said, I can’t really say, because I have never played it.
lol…tell me you’re not using a MOVIE as evidence. I guess we should take “The Money Pit” to heart and not buy an old house for fear of the ghosts. Or as “2001” points out, we’d better be careful exploring Jupiter, what with all them pesky monoliths floating around.
I can assure you all that there is no psychological research WHATSOEVER to indicate there is any psychological harm associated with D&D. But, hey, don’t take MY word for it:
Abstracts:
Carter & Lester (1998): 20 men who played Dungeons and Dragons did not differ in mean scores on depression, suicidal ideation, psychoticism, extraversion, or neuroticism from unselected undergraduates.
Leeds (1995): Examined the relationship between fantasy role-playing games (e.g., Dungeons & Dragons) and satanic practices. 217 men completed questionnaires and were categorized as 66 fantasy role-playing gamers, 26 satanic dabblers, and 125 noninvolved controls. All Ss were measured for personality dimensions of psychoticism, extraversion, and neuroticism using the Eysenck Personality Questionnaire (EPQ)-Revised; for beliefs in paranormal phenomena using the Belief in the Paranormal Scale; and for involvement in gaming and satanic practices using the Satanic and Fantasy Envelopment survey. Data revealed that fantasy gamers were different from satanic dabblers in major personality characteristics, paranormal beliefs, and interest in satanic practices. Satanic dabblers were significantly higher on psychoticism, introversion, and belief in the paranormal. Evidence is not consistent with the hypothesis that fantasy role-playing games are precursors to satanic practices.
Simon (1987): Administered the Sixteen Personality Factor Questionnaire (16PF) to 26 younger (aged 15-29 yrs) and 42 older (aged 20-25 yrs) players of a game that involves extensive fantasy role playing and that has been blamed for causing and promoting suicidal and homicidal behavior. A Pearson correlation showed no relationship between years of playing the game and Ss’ emotional stability (as measured by Factor C of the 16PF). The group as a whole showed a mundane profile devoid of the emotional instability associated with suicide and homicide.
Zayas and Lewis (1986)…actually used it in therapy:
Utilized a fantasy role-playing game, Dungeons and Dragons, in a group of 8 boys (aged 8-9 yrs) to foster adaptive social interaction. Ss were identified as having problems in interpersonal relations, tendencies to act out, and mild to moderate hyperactivity. The game posed dilemmas and tasks that called for various aspects of mutual aid in the group. Theoretical background, a description of the game, and case material are provided. Opportunities in the game for worker interventions and group mutual aid are discussed. The game is evaluated according to the functions of program activity described in the social group work literature.
Interesting link in the OP. Seems like the author has it well thought out. I agree with him. Just because I write about swords and sorcery, doesn’t make me inherently evil.
Some people think it will lead you to hell. Fine, they should stay away from it then. I don’t, but then I got bored playing it years ago.
I think I’ve read where Gary Gygax egged on those rumors in the early days, just to increase sales. That would be evil.
Oh geeze, was that “Dark Dungeons” cartoon for real? Sometimes I can be pretty naive, but…
I loved the line where the evil preistess something like, “I knew you were ready to be a witch by the way you played the game.”
That was great comedy.