tracer:
I wonder if the folks at Chick realized that their tract actually makes role-playing games seem more appealing than they really are. What teen’s heart wouldn’t leap at the thought of learning a magic spell that could make their parents buy them stuff?
Michael A. Stackpole, who is assuredly going to heck in a handbasket as an author of fantasy/sci-fi novels, RPG modules and <sarcasm>a free thinker</sarcasm> wrote the following dissertation on this very phenomenon:
http://www.rpg.net/252/quellen/stackpole/pulling_report.html
Please note his section on the Mazes & Monsters phenom.
The Skeptical Enquirer also had a well-researched article on the same topic. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find an on-line copy of the article, though I do have the hard copy here.
The first gaming group I was ever in had one fundamentalist christian, one buddhist, two catholics, one episcopalian, one jew, two agnostics and an athiest. Pretty mixed group. Religion never mattered to any of us, though - it was just a game. We all could tell fact from fantasy.
<opinion>
The main problem fundamentalist groups have with RPGs and fantasy in general seems to me to be that it encourages thinking, learning and other traits that discourage a herd mentality.
Overall, I think gaming is pretty useful. If nothing else, I can’t count the number of things I now know about history, geography, politics and yes, even religion, that I would never have found out if I weren’t a gamer, and hadn’t needed that information for a game I was playing in/running.
</opinion>
===
The Stackpole article and other informative links on this subject can be found at: http://roleplaygames.about.com/games/roleplaygames/msub10.htm
Apparently my mind has been damaged by all the role-playing I’ve done. My apologies; my post above was meant to be humorous. However, I’d never seen a Chick tract before. After following that link, I can see why you’d react the way you did.
Its good, too, (unless it just wasn’t noticed) that you responded with reason and tact to someone unstable enough to have written :
Those who do subscribe to the theory that these activities lead to occultism, psychological disturbance, or otherwise seem to be generally using the very wrong cause. Even the Chick tract seemed to focus more on ‘witchcraft’ than D&D.
FWIW, I am a Christian, and I’ve roleplayed. I don’t do it as much now, but I often enjoyed playing a strong sense of morality (even an assassin I played was quite ethical). I daresay it’s encouraging in some sense to play a hero. And those who play evil characters most often do it because it’s fun, just like many actors relish the role of villain. Is there a Chick tract against acting?
seriously, though, the end of that was rather frightening. To paraphrase Heinrich Heine (Elven Ranger, 17th Level):
“Das war ein Vorspiel nur; dort wo man Monster-Manuale und 20-seitig Würfel verbrennen, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.”
panama jack (who prefers the Hero system to D&D)
I just thought you guys might find this one interesting as well… its not completely RP but it has to do with it. Personally I was laughing most of the way through it and I wonder how some people can believe these things as well.
Oh my god! I remember that movie! It was horrible! I watched it out of pity for Tom Hanks. “I killed the gorgon!” I think MST3K should have spoofed it.
To the OP- there was a study that showed D&D players have a lower rate of suicide than the general population. I played the game for a few years, and still do sometimes. Nice game, that is.
Champions player checking in.
Heaven forbid anyone use their imagination - it’s not good for religous dogmatic brow-beating. “Don’t question it, just accept it!” :rolleyes:
I have a great .wav file spoof that a radio show did, claiming to be a “secretly recorded D&D gaming session” that shows off the demonic and evil practices… and then is mostly four geeks arguing over the rules, trying to pick up gaming bimbos and looking for the Cheetoes and Mountain Dew. Cracked me up! 
And I, too, admittedly remember “Mazes & Monsters.” Poor Tom Hanks. It’s nice to know he’s gone on to bigger and better things.
Esprix
Well, if you don’t mind a non-Christian response…
I played D&D as a youth as well. It didn’t cause me to grow up and become “evil, liscencious, and occultic.”
However, I always felt uncomfortable about certain aspects of the game. As a result, I never played as a cleric. Even the idea of role-playing at idolatry didn’t sit well with me (for those who don’t know, I’m a ;j ). I usually ended up as a fighter (I really enjoyed being a Ranger) or a magic user.
When I GM’ed, I used very little of the religious aspects of the game. Yes, I owned (and still do) a copy of Deities & Demigods, but it was rarely used.
As an aside, I bought the game Champions when I was younger, but never found anyone to play with. How was it?
Zev Steinhardt
Well, maybe Dungeons and Dragons only encourages the occult, but Champions is truly, truly evil. I believe that demins are alive and well in the world, and a demon surely helped write that “game.”
I only pray that Tracer and Exprix will see the truth in time and come away from those “magic” games and to the Lord.
Yeah, gotta watch out for those demins…
Zev Steinhardt
I’ve been gaming for almost 20 years, and it hasn’t affected me at all. OK, bad example.
Anyway, is this even an issue anymore? Is there any anti-RPG sentiment out there still? I think this thread is sooooooooooooo 80s.
Besides - we all know that the real Satanic game is Pokemon!
A while back, I mentioned in passing that I was an amateur magician. One person (admittedly, only one) took me to task over it. I tried to explain to him that I wasn’t talking about the occult, but Houdini, Copperfield, “Is this your card?”-type magic. Didn’t matter to him. His response had some bearing on this discussion:
We are to flee the very appearance of evil.
In other words, rather than genuinely examining something to see whether or not it is evil, one should just avoid everything that might be. Thus a Christian might avoid Dungeons and Dragons–not because it is evil, but because it might be, and who wants to take the chance? Some even say that even if you know something not to be “evil”, but others think it is, you should avoid it, because what kind of Christian are they going to think you are?
There are some who take this to an extreme, and feel it necessary to discourage others from getting involved. They might do this by playing up the potential evil, or by making up outright falsehoods–but it’s OK, because their intentions are good.
Of course, this makes it seem more evil, so more Christians avoid it, so more of them play up the evil, etc., etc. Positive feedback. Before long you get the aforementioned Chick tract, which was the funniest damn thing I had seen in a while.
Dr. J
Ooops, sorry Zev. I meant “denim.” Ya gotta watch out for them “denims.” They’re evil, especially seeing as how I just went up another size (sigh) . . .
Shoot, folks. I just can’t do it. I cannot find a way to sound even remotely rational sayign things like “Gamers are going to burn in Hell.” Just can’t do it.
Ah well. Back to my research. I’m building an AD$D campaign setting based in 5th century Britain. Y’all just haven’t lived until you’ve met an NPC named “Flavius Flavianus Africanus.” Still trying to decide if he’s a paladin or not.
-andros-
Actually, if you visit the bottom link in my post above, you’ll see that there’s still quite a lot of debate going on over “The Controversy.” So yes, it is still an issue.
One of the women I worked with was convinced that I was going to commit suicide because I game. Fortunately, the whole “Satanic” thing wasn’t an issue for her.
Well, okay, I’m not going to argue with this statement…I just saw the preview for Pokemon 2000 when I went to see Chicken Run ::shudder::
From andros:
OK, I cannot stay silent any longer. D&D IS evil, and should never be played. andros, if you like early Brit gaming, try Harn. I can guarantee, you’ll never go back.
I like Harn, axshually. But my players want AD$D with all the trimmings. And I don’t mind providing. I don’t think they’ve thought through the ramifications of being a non-human in post-Empire Britannia. I’m hoping to get the gnome thrown into a zoo.
So that’s why my husband always runs to get his sword when I come back from the grocery store!
I haven’t played D&D, but I did play Mekton, and it was a ball. People need to realize it’s a flipping game. And if kids can be influenced so easily, isn’t it problematic that the Bible tells them to go out and stone people, to eat feces and drink urine, etc.? Let’s have some logical consistency, please.
My personal axe to grind here is that my husband was very into D&D as a kid, and he apparently won some kind of regional contest or something, and got a prize package including stuff signed by Gary Gygax, etc. Then his mother saw Mazes & Monsters, and threw it all out when he was at school. Arg!
Cecil’s take on D&D:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_309b.html
(Warning to hardcore AD&D’ers: Cecil quotes that “red dragon” passage from the DMG slightly wrong. He ends the quote with “totalling 7758 h.p.”, but it’s obviously supposed to read “totalling 7758 x.p.”. 
)
I guess it depends on what you’re into. I love the gritty, dirty feel of Harn. D&D is just too “cute” for me.
The best damn thing in that Chick tract is the fact that, at the end, who is it that’s dancing around a huge bonfire, burning sacrifices, driving out spirits and proclaiming their undying faith?
Damn right, it’s the Christians! Rock on, party animals!
I agree with that completely. Even the Fading Suns, Ravenloft, Greyhawk, and whatever other crap was still just a bit silly. Ooooh! It’s spooooky! I have the same problem with White Wolf.
But then, I don’t run prepared modules or established worlds. There are wads of other systems that might be better suited (I like Palladium a lot), but I know AD$D, and so do my players.
tdn, have you read Jack Whyte’s Camulod Chronicles?