I remember an article that ran during the 50th anniversary of D-day, which said most Germans were glad they lost the war, but many were still wondering why the army hadn’t been able to repel the allied landing.
Another fairly recent article I read was by a U.S citizen who had taught in Japan, elementary level if I remember correctly. According to this, the children were surprised to find out the Japan and the U.S. had once fought a war, and wanted to know who had won.
I have a couple of family experiences which show how much stronger anti-German sentiment was during WWI than WWII. During WWI, a group on my fathers side suddenly felt the need to change their last names from Albrect (sp?) to Albright. However, when my mother came over from Germany during WWII, she encountered few problems. (It helped that she was seen as a refugee.) On the other hand, at the eastern college she attended during the war, she was the only one willing to room with a girl with a Japanese background.
My grandfather grew up in western Illinois during World War I and his area was able to maintain its German culture (especially since one of the major towns was called Germantown) because the population was probably something close to 95% German.
I visited the War Memorial in Japan (which is called “Shrine of the Peaceful Nation” or words to that effect) and it was quite interesting. The accompanying museum refers to WWII as “The Great Pacific War”. The Invasion of Manchuria had another name in Japan which sounded much more neutral.
You can go and see the orders to bomb Pearl Harbor and read about Yamamoto’s misgivings about the attack. It was really weird to stand next to a Japanese couple reading the orders and hearing one of them say “Tora! Tora! Tora!”
Things are looking up, in this respect. After a diplomatic chess match that lasted for years, the Japanese Emperor offered his apologies for the atrocities inflicted on Dutch prisoners-of-war in the Dutch East Indies. He did so on a recent visit to The Netherlands. Read this Reuters report for details.
Spiny Norman said:
That sight brought tears to my eyes. Not only did it show the true European spirit (which should be BEYOND trade barriers and exchange rates), it implicitly showed us ALL why this should never, EVER happen again.
I love Helmut Kohl. He lost his brother in WWII, and has made it his personal goal to unify Europe in order to NEVER let a WWII-type conflict happen again. It is a terrible shame that he went down in a political scandal: we should NEVER forget what he did for Europe, and for European peace. One of the most important statesmen since World War II.
I think you’ve inadvertently hit the nail on the head. Why do Germany’s neighbors embrace that country with so little reservations? Why do Japan’s neighbors harbor such distrust and hostility toward her? Precisely because the Germans have owned up to their past, and the Japanese haven’t.
Maybe nobody can “force” Japan to “bow” in a gesture of atonement for its murderous past, but if it doesn’t, Japan itself will suffer the most for it. That “divine nation with an Emperor at its center” could stand to learn a few lessons from its former wartime ally.
[hijack] On an interesting side note, at the beginning of WW2, there were at least 22 Hitlers listed in the NYC phone book. By the end, there were none. [/hijack]
I just want to put my 2 cents in on the WW1 issue. Most (many) modern methods of propagand were developed during WW1. There was even a USA goverment department of “information” that was used to stir up pro-war feelings.
That’s interesting. I have wondered why you don’t run into the occasional Hitler surname every once in a while. It does seem that such a name would leave a challenging first impression.
Imagine being an HR person looking over job applications and you find a Mr. or Ms Hitler in the bunch. Do you wnat that name representing your company: “Hello, this is Hitler speaking.”
Rumor Query/East Germans
The rumor that I heard was that (former) East Germans have not adopted the attitude that their (formerly) West German counterparts have; that there’s still plenty of pro-Nazi views among them.
I’d say Neo-Nazis exist in West and East Germany alike, like they exist everywhere. No idea as to how the distribution is, however. What you say could be true, but I have heard of no such thing here in Europe. So I think it’s fair to say you met with an exageration there.
Having said that, I would like to add the following: compared to (neo-)nazi sympathies in other European countries such as France, Belgium and Italy, the extreme right in Germany are nothing. It really isn’t a problem in Germany, to my knowledge.
Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t modern Germans simply not identify themselves with the old fascisim? A typical German citizen didn’t have any right to question, let alone, stop the Nazi party and can rightfully state that they were under the yoke of an oppressive regime. As to those swept up with Nazism, can’t they rationalize their beliefs as being victimized by the propaganda and authority of their government? There’s a difference between “we must be vigil about patriotic demagoges” and “we are a bad people.”
Look at the recent celebration in Vietnam for the celebration of the 25th anniversary, how many Americans feel shame about that? Many were against this war of ideology and in retrospect everyone should have been, but no one really cares as they know that their government and party leaders were making the calls and if there is anyone to blame it is their government and political parties not the average citizen.
Ugh, this reply, and HLF’s opinion are better suited to GD.
Did you miss the Cold War? We blundered big time (and I mean our political leadership - primarily the Democrats at the time, but also the ever blundering Republicans) in our conduct of the Vietnam War, but we had to show, at the least to demonstrate some resolve to resist the Communist Internationale. The war was hardly an indigenous people’s simple attempt at autonomy.
Admittedly, we blew an opportunity with Ho-Chi Minh during the WW II wind-down, but by the time it got to the 1950’s we had no choice but to somehow resist the Communist tide. It is ironic that the 1960’s battlefield of the ‘hot’ part of the Cold War is one of the few remaining “Communist” countries.
On to the OP and divergences. I spent several of my youthful years growing up in Japan and it seemed there was a pretty clean cleave between the generation that was old enough to remember their society and culture before the war, and those of later generations. The kids I was friends with were mainly nisei, i.e., Japanese on one side and whatever on the other (2nd generation). My best friend in Japan (5th and 6th grade - I also did kindergarten and 1st grade there) was sansei - his Mom had been born in Washington of Japanese immigrant parents and was thoroughly Americanized, but his dad was an IJN carrier pilot during the war and could barely tolerate my presence in their house. Mom spent the War in Japan. He (pal) and I read what we could and realized that our thoroughly Japanese acquaintance (and his Dad) had a far different version of the war in mind. There was a popular cartoon show at the time that I watched regularly (1964-65). It showed, in what is now called anime, a brave Japanese pilot and his squadron regularly outwitting some bunch of dumbasses with a bunch of aircraft carriers.
Japan joined the empire game late, but with gusto. And she will likely be late in 'fessing up to the boo-boo’s of her international debut.
I don’t know about Germans in Germany, but I do know a little about Germans in the US. My wife’s family emigrated from Germany around 1950. My mother-in-law was about 13 at the time, and she came with her mother and two sisters. Her father had been a sergeant (or equivalent?) in the German Army, and had been killed in the war. One of the family’s dirty little secrets is that my m-i-l’s godfather was none other than Hitler himself.
Nobody in my wife’s family will confirm that “Opa” was a member of the Nazi Party, but I do know that he had to prove that his wife (Oma) wasn’t Jewish, in spite of a ‘Jewish-sounding’ maiden name.
Also, nobody will talk about my wife’s grandfather’s role in the army, and in fact, my wife’s grandmother now claims that they were opposed to Hitler and the war the whole time, but I believe that to be revisionist on her part.