Damn airlines. How the HELL do they get away with this shit.

The BBQ Pit
61

[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
Is the layover in Philly only for the return trip?

I don’t know if this is possible, but what if, instead of boarding a plane in Pittsburgh on the return day, you get on a train, take it to Philadelphia, and join up with them there?

Checkng the Amtrack schedules, it looks like even if the airline would play along it’s not really practical. Seven and a half hours for a train to travel three hundred fifty stinkin’ miles–who knew?

You could do it faster renting a car.
[/QUOTE]

Usually flights booked from a discount site specify that the airline will cancel your ticket if you no-show for any segment.

62

[QUOTE=Waverly]
and rewards customers wanting to make last minute changes with exhorbitant change fees or outright refusal.
[/QUOTE]

When did this happen to you? How much did they charge?
I make two or three trips a year from Tampa, FL to Manchester, NH via Southwest and I have never had a problem. Holidays, weekends, middle of the week flights. When Hurricane Frances hit in '04 on the day I was flying to NH, I had no problem getting a flight for the following day, with no charge. Even with countless other travelers doing the same thing.
I have changed my itinerary many times on many different flights, from months ahead of time to as near as a week. I have never been charged a fee for changing my flight, and on many occasions, the new flight was actually cheaper. There have been times I’ve attempted to change the flight and the difference was $200, but that’s not the case every single time. I have cancelled flights three times with no fee - and every penny has been credited to my travel funds.
One of those cancellations I didn’t use for over a year, which is the time limit they place on redemption. All it took was one phone call and it was extended for another 6 months.
So, I would really like to know the circumstances you got exorbitant fees from?

63

[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
Is the layover in Philly only for the return trip?
[/QUOTE]
Yep.

The problem is that even if we did cancel, no direct flights (there are only three that day) other than United works for our schedule. And they want $950 to fly round trip from Denver to Pittsburgh. I’m sorry, but that’s just fucking ridiculous.

I’m not quite as pissed off today (I was in a foul mood in general yesterday), but still pretty unhappy about it.

64

/travel guru hat ON/

If the airline performed a schedule change that’s unacceptable to you, then there’s a good chance you can get them to refund your money.
Problem is, refunds from the airlines take quite a bit of time to actually get posted to your credit card; sometimes as long as two months.

Have you considered alternate airports? I just found these nonstop roundtrip flights to Cleveland for $448 each. Cleveland is a little more than a two-hour drive to Pittsburgh
22 NOV 07 - THURSDAY
CO 720 depart DENVER 950A arrive CLEVELAND 243P
26 NOV 07 - MONDAY
CO1421 depart CLEVELAND 715P arrive DENVER 840P

/travel guru hat OFF/

65

[QUOTE=LunaV]
When did this happen to you? How much did they charge?
[/QUOTE]
It’s happened a few times, though I probably can’t remember too many of the specifics. I remember being in the North East, and having to cut a trip short at the last minute. In this case it might have meant changing from Manchester to Bradley (I can’t remember for sure) as city of departure. The destination would have been Baltimore. Anyway, they couldn’t just change. They refunded my original ticket and issued a new one at rates that reflected the fact that it was a last minute booking. But I was OK up to that point. Then they hit me with a further $100 upcharge. $100 on a Southwest ticket is really, really hefty.

To make sure I was good and disgruntled, their system flags (or used to flag?) travelers making last minute changes, and I was issued the infamous checkerboard decorated boarding pass. I got extra screening at security, and was pulled out of the boarding line for yet more screening and had to choose a middle seat by the time they finished.

I am forced to make changes all the time, and have been pulled out of the que by Southwest on more than half the flights I’ve taken with them.

The other example I gave was Phoenix or maybe Vegas to NY (Islip or LGA?) probably with one stop. Having finished up for the day early, I went to the airport hoping to find an earlier flight to stand by for. The cheerful lady at the counter working an earlier flight would not allow me to stand by… not because the flight was full (it didn’t seem to be), not because I wasn’t willing to pay one of their change fees (I offered!), not because my luggage was checked (I didn’t check any), but just because she said it wasn’t possible. She couldn’t even think of a reason. Just not possible.

Anyway. I do have something to compare them to. United has made changes for me dozens, maybe over a hundred times, and if they ever charge me at all, it is just for the difference in ticket price – allowing me the benefit of my original booking date. I can arrive early and stand by for an earlier flight, though they are normally good enough to find a confirmed seat if they can. No charge at all for this.

Seems the big difference between us is that my changes are very last minute and I seldom book a single round trip ticket.

66

[QUOTE=aruvqan]
Frankfurt bad?

I loved Frankfurt compared to a lot of others [we just don’t want to get into philly, puerto rico or de gaul]

Everything is under 1 roof. You get off your plane, grab your luggage, go through customs and go down a hallway, underneath is the bus station, then there is a hotel [sheraton?] and another hallway leading to the train station. There are several choices of places to eat, plenty of seriously clean bathrooms, and lots of helpful peopl e who speak english.

Heck, I was going to get something to eat in the cafe above the train platform and got bought breakfast by a couple who wanted to practice english.
[/QUOTE]

When were you last there?

In my (very) limited experience with FRA, it’s changed a lot in recent years - for the worse.

I was there as a kid travelling with my parents in 1980 and 1984. The second time, we actually stayed a night at that Sheraton you referred to (and had dinner at one of those underground restaurants, and even watched a movie in the airport’s cinema, also downstairs). The next day, I “toured” the airport on my own, mostly checking out the cool Luftwaffe relics they used to keep up on the roof (don’t know if they’re still there). What I remember was a humming model of Teutonic efficiency - clean, orderly, well-maintained, with plenty of amenities.

When I got a layover there in January 2005 on a trip to Singapore, I was actually looking forward to seeing the old Flughafen again. Boy, what a shock I had when I got off the plane. The airport was incredibly congested, grimy and run-down in appearance, with overflowing trash bins. And don’t even get me started on the bathrooms. Yikes. I’ve used facilities in airports in India that were cleaner. A truly unpleasant experience all-around.

[hijack of a hijack]
The airport I have the most experience with is Boston Logan. I really don’t understand all the hate it receives. Sure, it’s a pain-in-the-ass trying to get from Terminal A to Terminal E in the winter, but it’s definitely no worse than JFK. Plus, at least at Terminal C, they have a lot of good shops and restaurants. Plus, if you don’t have to actually go into Boston itself, it’s quite easy to get in and out of via Route 1 through Revere. YMMV.
[/end of hijack-hijack]

67

[QUOTE=NinjaChick]
My parents live right outside Philly, and unless there’s really cheap airfare, it’s hard to justify the haul up to Newark to avoid the airport. It is by far the worst airport I’ve ever used, in so many ways.

Be advised that if you’re going in or out of terminal E, you’ll need to go through security again (and at Philly, unless it’s before 7 AM, that means at least 30 minutes in line). For some reason they decided to keep E entirely disconnected from the rest of the airport (note that there is a shuttle that connects terminal F to the rest of the airport, so it’s just this one terminal).

But, yeah, airlines suck pretty much all around.
[/QUOTE]

Hollll-eeee cats. Thank Og I ended up not having to transfer through Philly when my grandfather died in January. (I was supposed to, coming back from Palm Springs via Las Vegas; but the airport blew a generator, so they sent me to LAX by taxi, and I flew LAX-ORD-YUL.)

68

What? You can check in online 24 hours in advance with Southwest and get in Boarding Group A? Goddam it, I wish I had known that yesterday. My wife and I arrived at the airport 2 hours early, thinking we would get in group A, and we still got in group C. We were the last two to get on the damn plane, and there were exactly 2 seats left. Not together, of course. Both next to obese people.

That is the first unpleasant experience I’ve ever had on Southwest though. I’m tall, and they seem to have more leg room. I never got out a ruler though, so it could just be my perception. But even so, my perception makes me a lot more comfortable. I swear on American my knees are touching the seat in front of me, and on SW, I have a good 2-3 inches of clearance.

I’ll probably still go with Southwest in the future though. Even though it’s not perfect, it’s a damn site better than anyone else. I’ve been hacked and bloodied on virtually every other airline far worse than with Southwest.

69

[QUOTE=GrizzRich]
/travel guru hat ON/
22 NOV 07 - THURSDAY
CO 720 depart DENVER 950A arrive CLEVELAND 243P
26 NOV 07 - MONDAY
CO1421 depart CLEVELAND 715P arrive DENVER 840P
/travel guru hat OFF/
[/QUOTE]
Yeah we did the Akron/Canton thing last time. But we want to get to our SIL’s house earlier than that.

Sure, we could also expand the dates that we travel too, but that means more time off, more money on hotels and rental cars and so on.

70

[QUOTE=Waverly]
No, I am not kidding. I’m glad you have had good [anecdotal] experiences with them. I have had terrible experiences, and less subjectively, I also know them as the airline: selectively threatening to refuse to let passengers fly if they don’t like how they are dressed, who has had several pilots arrested for attempting to fly while intoxicated, that has passengers que in line for hours for general admission seating, that habitually overbooks (even more than others – and being refused a seat is death for business travel!), and rewards customers wanting to make last minute changes with exhorbitant change fees or outright refusal.

I have seen it reported that they are on the low end of the complaint scale. I think that is because many business traveler have already recognized that they aren’t a viable option. People looking for a cheap flight to Las Vegas, however, love Wal-Mart air.
[/QUOTE]

bolding mine

Perhaps you’re letting your venom get the better of you.
-In doing a google search of the words, “intoxicated pilot arrest Southwest”; I’ve only come up with one incident of a Southwest co-pilot from June 2006…though it was reported from many outlets. Intoxicated Northwest Airlines pilots were the first ones to REALLY make headlines because they took the extra step of getting tanked in the airport bar.
-In queue for hours for seating?.. AN hour perhaps. That gate will have more than one flight per day departing from it. Travelers for flights HOURS hence will have no place to queue up for seating because travelers from current flights are queueing for seating!
-Overbooking? ALL airlines overbook! Yes… ALL. Southwest no more than others.
-Exhorbitant change fees? outright refusal? Southwest does not charge change fees. If you make a change to your itinerary, they WILL charge you the difference between what you’re ticketed and the airfare at the time of the change. And I can’t see any airline justifying outright refusal unless the flight the passenger wants is full or the passenger is causing a scene creating a security issue.

71

[QUOTE=GrizzRich]
Perhaps you’re letting your venom get the better of you.
[/QUOTE]
I have to admit I could not find a cite for a 2nd incident of Southwest pilot intoxication. It may have been a regional affiliate or I may be misremembering America West.

As for the rest, you are wrong. There is NO WAY to get guarantee you will get out of Islip or San Jose, as just two examples, on Southwest without spending hours in the combined ques for ticketing, security, and boarding. I was charged the change fee and refused the chance to stand by. I like your supposition that this could be due to said passenger, me, making a scene. What is more likely: that I risked jail time by causing a scene, or a gate agent was worried more about her own convenience than customer service?

72

[QUOTE=enipla]
OK. But we paid more for a non-stop flight. We could have taken the cheaper route to begin with but we didn’t. . . I don’t think you should have to gamble like that. At the least I think the difference between the two fares, non-stop vs. layover (from when we bought the tickets, not when they canceled our flight) should be refunded.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, I agree, it’s a bad fucking deal. But that’s the deal they are offering–unless you’re willing to shell out hundreds more for a ticket that lets you pull out of the deal when they make changes that are inconvenient, impossible, or seemingly unfair. It sucks that they got you to pay more for a time/route/plane that worked better for you, but there is never any guarantee that they won’t still fuck around with it and stick you with something shittier–and, gallingly, something that they had previously offered at a lower price. It absolutely sucks, and until many more people decide “You know, this is one really shitty deal they are offering, let’s stop flying” it will keep on going.

Unlike catsix, I do not believe that high-fare business travel alone will sustain airlines. It already doesn’t–isn’t that why they’re trying to sell seats to low-cost leisure travelers and to business travelers who buy restricted tickets?. Perhaps with much-reduced fleets & employees, they could survive as high-fare-only, excellent-service airlines. But not as things currently are.

73

[QUOTE=denquixote]
Usually flights booked from a discount site specify that the airline will cancel your ticket if you no-show for any segment.
[/QUOTE]

I suspected as much. Those assholes.

Okay, how’s this? Find a guy and two girls in Pittsburgh who go to college in Philadelphia…

ETA: :smiley:

74

I’m sorry to hear you’ve had bad experiences with Southwest. It may just be a difference in our flying styles and plan changes, but I’ve never had a disappointing time with them.
The only thing I want to point out is your experience with a last-minute flight change:
[QUOTE=Waverly]
To make sure I was good and disgruntled, their system flags (or used to flag?) travelers making last minute changes, and I was issued the infamous checkerboard decorated boarding pass. I got extra screening at security, and was pulled out of the boarding line for yet more screening and had to choose a middle seat by the time they finished.
[/QUOTE]

I think this, aggravating though it may be, is a good thing in terms of airport security. The majority of travelers need to arrange things like a ride to and from the airport, hotel rooms, car rentals, what-have-you. These are usually done in advance, and any change throws it all off. I know there are a lot of problems with our current security measures for flights, and the ‘random’ checks are wildly skewed, but flagging people who make last-minute changes seems prudent to me.

75

[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
I suspected as much. Those assholes.

Okay, how’s this? Find a guy and two girls in Pittsburgh who go to college in Philadelphia…

ETA: :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

That would only work if you could find three people in Pittsburgh who go to college in Philly and have exactly the same names as the ones already on the ticket. :smack: They do check your ID against the ticket.
The odds just became a little longer.

76

Ah, but college students are famous for their ability to procure and effectively use fake IDs.

Just gotta hope the TSA guys are approximately as sharp as the old guy behind the counter at the liquor store…

:wink:

77

[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley]
What? You can check in online 24 hours in advance with Southwest and get in Boarding Group A? Goddam it, I wish I had known that yesterday. My wife and I arrived at the airport 2 hours early, thinking we would get in group A, and we still got in group C. We were the last two to get on the damn plane, and there were exactly 2 seats left.
[/QUOTE]

Right–you really want to check-in online at Southwest now that the word is (mostly) out that you can do this.

I checked in online 22 hours prior to my flight last month and got “B” boarding passes. A year ago, I would have gotten “A” passes that far in advance.

If you wait until 2 hours prior to the flight to check in you are guaranteed to get “C” passes.

When you check in online, you can actually print out your boarding passes. Later, when you arrive at the airport to check your luggage, they will note that you are already checked in. If they reprint out your boarding pass for some reason, you keep the same category you already had.

When we returned from Disney last month, the concierge was happy to check us in online for our return flight at the hotel desk the day before our departure. They seemed pretty used to doing this. The hotel didn’t print out our boarding passes, but we kept the same category when I printed out the boarding passes at the airport the next day.

And despite what Waverly says, I’ve never stood in line for hours. We typically get in line at the boarding gate about 30-40 minutes prior to departure, wait in line for about 10-15 minutes minutes, and board.

Secondly, due to my father’s illness (and later death) last year, I found myself making numerous last-minute flights to Houston. In every case, Southwest was cheaper than any other carrier for last minute flights and last minute changes. They do not charge change fees! I actually flew down twice on one-way tickets because I simply didn’t know how long I’d be there. It was completely hassle-free. On my last trip, I was notified that my Dad way dying at 11:30 am one day. I booked my ticket at noon, and was on a plane by 3:30 pm. I could have gone sooner, but I had to make a one hour round trip home to pack. The flight was pricy at about $350, but the other carriers wanted something like $900!

78

[QUOTE=Fuji]
In my (very) limited experience with FRA, it’s changed a lot in recent years - for the worse.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, there’s a couple of factors at play. Firstly the airport seems to be getting busier and busier, with a lot of additional traffic to places like Asia (tons of flights to/from China now it seems). They are doing construction and refurb work now which makes things worse, but hopefully will help in the long run.
Secondly all the flights to gibberinghystericalpansyasswhinyparanoidsenseofentitlement countries (the UK & US) which demand extra-special security processes are all segregated down at one end of one terminal, past a SECOND layer of security. So once you get through the security that’s good enough for every other country on the planet, you then get to hike half-way down one of the LOONG terminal buildings and go through the whole thing again. Then, you can’t go anywhere else flyside, you just have to enjoy what you’ve got.
I don’t know what the rest of the airport is like, but the apartheid zone is pretty crap at the moment.

As to the OP - air travel is either very shit or very very expensive, take your pick. The era of pleasant low-cost flying passed a long time ago, the only options are to get tranked up before flying or buy a really nice car. Sorry.

79

I took a charter flight from London to E.Africa on Imperial airlines ,it counts as a long haul flight but they used a short haul plane and justified it because we had to refuel in Greece.
The difference between L.H. planes and S.H. planes is the amount of leg room.
This was before Deep Vein Thrombosis caused by restricted movement for long periods was known about.

When we arrived at Athens we weren’t allowed off of the aircraft or even allowed to stand so we all pretended to queue for the toilet to get some circulation in our legs.
After several hours with my knees up around my chest I was just about ready to kill somebody ,preferably an Imperial airways manager.

80

[QUOTE=LunaV]
I know there are a lot of problems with our current security measures for flights, and the ‘random’ checks are wildly skewed, but flagging people who make last-minute changes seems prudent to me.
[/QUOTE]
If I had been up to any no good whatsoever, I’d have noted the checkerboard strip on my boarding pass, and calmly left the airport. You may agree with the intent of this practice, but the deployment is less than superficial. I want to have safe flights too, but I don’t think this helps one iota.