If anyone sees a jawbone around…it’s mine.
This news aside, who else is happy to hear about the progress on the UN resolution?
After a long time, there’s some good news on Iraq and it looks like this thing might just work. Anyone share the optimism?
I almost hate to ask, but…what “law” are referring to that we lay down?
Pollyanna, Dr. Pangloss on line one…
There is some good news in this, to be sure. Fence mending seems to be going on. As long as GeeDubya is willing to forgive the French for sabotaging the whole post-war effort…oh, you didn’t know? Yep, it was the French. All thier fault.
As to the whole debt forgiveness thing, indeed, the silver lining in a shitstorm. But I think we shouldn’t forget that the architects of this boondoggle were, by their own lights, well meaning. The people who sank the third world into red ink did so with the best of intentions. These people believe in entreprenuership and free marketing like some people believe in Jesus - wholly, and without doubt. Morons, perhaps, but not villains.
I am a bit ignorant of International Monetary dealies. So I’m curious how those countries(let’s take Iraq out of the equation for simplicity) that are having their debt forgiven, will be affected. Are they repaying their debt at all currently? or is this deal mostly postering to say" you don’t have to pay back the money that we damn well know we weren’t going to get anyway". Will it help the countries? Will they look more stable and therefore more attractive to investement or something?
When a country is about to collapse because it can’t support its spending, it goes to the IMF. Imagine that you are spending $1,000/week but only making $500/week. It won’t be long, unless you have a big savings account, before you crater. So someone makes you a deal: You get your spending down to $500/week and keep it there, and I’ll loan you $500/week for the time being so that you don’t get screwed on pre-existing commitments, provided that you pay the money back.
That is essentially what the IMF does. When a country is about to implode, they go to the IMF and undertake steps to obtain a fiscally responsible budget. The IMF then loans them money to cover the spendin that they can’t make by being fiscally responsible. Their economy improves because of good governance, or non-irresponsible governance, and after a while they pay back the IMF.
Note: First is that these countries are about to collapse; it would be foolish to think that after getting the IMF loans everything would be just peachy because bad governance is what got them there in the first place. Second, many countries meet the IMF criteria but don’t borrow; IMF approval is a signal to private lenders that a country is a safe (safer?) investment, and a lot of the debt they carry is private debt and can’t be forgiven by a nat’l. gov’t. Third, Krugman has suggested that the IMF is too small and could be more effective if it could get more funds to do the job properly.
If the countries maintain their IMF approved status, then the forgiveness shouldn’t hurt them because they’ve been certified fiscally responsible.
I usually do not try to call people that post these sort of things on their statements, but I just have to point out something and ask for some clarification.
Is this not the same Brutus who undyingly supports the war in Iraq to free the people from tyrannical rule? Your statement seems to purport that we should “lay down the law”, i.e., rule these other countries, thereby becoming the unwanted dictator of a country. “Laying down the law” implies forcing people to do things against their will (although I am still hardpressed to understand what laws you wish to lay down on these people).
A Democracy, or a Republic, can only be maintained by the will of the people. Not a foreign power “laying down the law” of their particular belief system. That is the true definition of oppression and I find it very hypocritical for you to support a war allegedly for freedom when you wish to actually supress the freedom of other nations.
However, that may be what you truly desire anyways and if so, then so be it. But identify yourself outwardly though as a person who supports the imperialistic dominance of the american culture to further our own interests despite any sense of ethical, moral or legal considerations.
Finally, on a side note, the controlling of AIDS in other countries, or any communicable disease for that matter, is indeed of National Interest. Allowing a virus to go unchecked can lead to rampant mutation that may eventually lead to a strain of the virus that is beyond medical capability. This is one of the primary reasons why the World Health Organization exists. I only wish that we were actually giving the 15 billion to worthwhile programs. The jury is still out on this one though and it is unclear if any of the money will actually go to help alleviate the terrible suffering of millions of people who live in areas where infection rates approach, or exceed, epidemic proportions.
So, perhaps, Blair is not totally taken by the dark side yet? 
Damn, if only Bush came out and stated that we are going to invade Iraq so we could forgive the debts owed to us, I would have supported the war from the get go.
For more information on debt and AIDS relief in Africa, DATA just put out a paper yesterday on the [url http://www.data.org/archives/G82004report.pdf]G8 and African Leadership in the War on AIDS and Extreme Poverty. It has quite a bit on international debt faced by African countries, and also has some excellent numbers associated with both topics being discussed in this thread.
On this topic, I have to ask: what the heck does Bush mean about “There were some who said we’d never get one.” Are these the same mysterious “some” who alleged that non-white people couldn’t handle democracy like us Americans? Who ever said that the UN wouldn’t want to help get the U.S. out of power in Iraq?
Isn’t it BUSH who said they’d never get approval from the U.N.?
I just find it interesting that Bush is now bragging about getting the UN resolution past. Wasn’t it just last year that the UN was “irrelevant” and that it was filled with members from “old europe.”
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/un.iraq/index.html
If the third-world debt reduction agreement is true, that, combined with his changing his mind about the UN, has got to be driving some conservatives mad.
You know of a better system?
Well, trading one dictator for another could be a damned helpful thing for some African countries. Congo, for example. Zimbabwe. Sudan. Angola. Et cetera.
Africa has far more pressing needs than AIDS drugs, like roads, rule of law, and other basic infrastucture needs. And since you aren’t going to get those things under the kleptocracys that are common over there, it’s just money down the drain.
Hey, if pumping 15 billion into Africa will make some of you feel better about yourselves, I am not particularily opposed. Out of a couple trillion dollar budget, it isn’t going to break the bank. But don’t fool yourselves into thinking that it going to make a meaningful difference.
The US has done this quite a few times in the past, but they weren’t just helping the countries trade one dictator for another.
In your first example, Congo (once the Belgian Congo, then Zaire, now the Democratic Republic of Congo), the US disposed of a democratically elected leader, Patrice Lumumba, and replaced him with one of the most notoriously corrupt and murderous dictators, Mobutu Sese Seko.
Your suggestion is idiotic. Learn a little bit of history so that, next time, your main example is not a story of hypocrisy and murder.
Just a second now, you tofu-munching, latte-drinking liberal! Yes, Sese Seko was a thief, murderer, and a bloodthirsty monster of epic proportions. But Patrice Lumumba was a Communist!
Kinda puts things in perspective, doesn’t it?
The Washington Post story about the coup against, and murder of, Lumumba
On preview:
Macchiatos, elucidator, macchiatos. I’m not just a danged pinko, I’m pretentious as well.
I don’t know how you get from this that Bush was draggedd ‘kicking and screaming’. I doubt if Blair would have sandbagged him like that. I suspect Britain and the U.S. had their script prepared long before this took place.
If you keep making me laugh like that, I might get busted by the boss for cyberslacking.