Damn pharmaceutical companies

The BBQ Pit
1

I don’t know if that is spelled right and I don’t care.

Today I went to the doctor for my depression, anxiety and ADD. We mutually agreed to try Wellbutrin SR for my treatment instead of Ritalin at this time.

The upside of this medication is three-fold.

It aids in the treatment of adult ADD.

Excellent anti-depressant qualities.

Last but not my major concern…no lectures, is it’s effects on smoking cessation. This is just and added benefit.

Anyhow, I went to check the pricing on this medication…$104.00. I don’t have insurance yet, and even if I did it’s a pre-existing condition.

What ticks me off about this whole thing is, people with no known preexisting conditions would still get away with a $20.00 copay. The insurance companies, I am sure, have some form of “contract” with the pharmacies to get their medication payments cheaper, aka less than the entire $104 I pay them.

Yet I have a pre-existing condition that when my insurance kicks in, May 15th, I still wouldn’t be covered. So I get the shaft no matter how you look at it.

I realize the benefits and want to get better, but I am just pissed about the costs involved. Not to mention I have to pay for a doctor’s visit out of my pocket.

Damn, I would hate to be in worse off situations like Ayesha, but it just sucks no matter how you look at it. We pay for insurance for a reason damnit.

In my Libertarian ways I say, well, that’s the price of being free and the pharmaceutical companies have to make a buck plus the amount of time and money it takes to develop such medications.

On the flip side it still pisses me off. I will probably be on this type of medication all my life because of my ADD, so over the next 25 years, I will have to pay out of pocket $31,200, give or take a thousand. Don’t forget the cost of insurance on top of that, I figure, not including my doctors visits that over $60,000 in 25 years.

Now I am pissed at the genetics that contributed to my ADD…fuckin bitch of a birth mother and dickhead of a birthfather.

Oh and another thing, my blood pressure was higher than normal. Of course it could be because of my anxiety and being at the doctor but I have to watch out for that too…damn genetics.

2

You say that you don’t have insurance “yet.” Does that mean you’ll be getting insurance in the near future? Check your policy. A lot of policies don’t have a pre-ex clause and those that do will usually have a time limit on them, usually one year from the effective date of coverage. You may be on the hook for a while, but it may not be forever.

3

Since when do pre-esxiting conditions even matter? It’s ABSOLUTELY illegal to discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions.

I’ve had several pre-existing conditions, including Epilepsy, Athsma, ADD/ADHD with spatial dyslexia–to say the least, I’ve been through a number of HMO’s recently(and all my life), and never, EVER been limited by a pre-existing condition.

So, my advice to you is to relax, get your coverage and then go back to your doctor.

And remember kids, crack doesn’t smoke itself!

4

Yep, if I have a pre existing condition I can not get treatment.

That’s the deal…my insurance kicks in May 15th…not even going to try to fight this one, my insurance agent already told me I will not be able to be covered.

5

I may be mistaken, but isn’t ADD included in the Americans with Disabilities Act? I’m no expert here, but doesn’t that mean the condition qualifies as a disability rather than a pre-existing condition?

6

Maybe the title of this thread should be “damn health insurance companies”…or perhaps “God damn blood sucking insurance companies!” Of course I wouldn’t want to ignore the price gouging of the pharmacutical industry either.

7

It’s only going to get worse until the government gets the balls to step in and do something about it. Unfortunately, looking over the crop of possibilities in the upcoming election, there’s nary a testicle in sight.

Dr. J

“Seriously, baby, I can prescribe anything I want!” -Dr. Nick Riviera

8

I refuse to get into a government discussion over health care, because of my political beliefs and the fact I was bitching about the drug companies.

My bitch is really more towards the drug companies.

If they would make prices affordable for more people they actually would make more money in the beginning of their fucking patent or whatever they get. They lower their pricing after other companies have access to their “formula”.

For this case it’s $1.73+ a pill.

Shit, when I was in junior high I could get speed pills for 50 cents a hit. That is highly illegal shit, and more fun.

What I am saying is, if the drug companies got off their asses and made prescriptions more affordable (along with pharmacies) people all over the US would have a better opinion of them and hopefully for the right reasons would be prescribed their prescriptions.

Glaxo-Wellcome and King Soopers leave a bad taste in my mouth right now…fuck my insurance abilities, it’s not going to happen. If I had my way insurance companies would be disbanded and, without government intervention, basic health care (things that happen to millions of people) would be cheap by the virtue of consumer upheaval (sp?).

9

Actually, you should be damning whomever carries your insurance, not the pharma co’s.

My meds are over a dollar a piece, and I still only pay $7 a prescrition on Aetna, and even before on Cigna(which is truly crappy insurance), I still paid less than $20–pre-existing conditions and all.

And remember kids, crack doesn’t smoke itself!

10

Techchick: I’m afraid that drug companies are not gouging you - drugs cost a lot of money for several reasons:

  1. Drug research is very expensive. You can’t pay top-flight scientists minimum wage.

  2. It currently costs an average of $350 million dollars and about 12 years to get an FAA approval for a drug. This is excessive, but the blame rests on the government and its hyper-cautious attitudes towards all risk.

  3. After a drug is brought to market, the company that did all the work and spent all the money only gets a few years to recoup their investment and make a profit before the drug enters the public domain.

  4. Insane lawsuits have made liability insurance for new drugs hideously expensive.

Drug companies are subject to the same laws of economics as every other company. To figure out the price of a drug, they amortize their costs of R&D and certification over the projected sales volume during the lifespan of the patent, plus their percentage for profit. They don’t engage in monopoly pricing by and large, for the simple reason that there are very, very few drugs that do not have alternatives. Alternatives to Wellbutrin include Ritalin, Dexedrine, ADDerral, and a few other drugs.

11

Er, that should be FDA approval. Too much airplane talk going on in that other thread.

12

dhanson wrote:

I might have be way out of bounds here because I don’t have any sources to back this up, but I was under the impression that many prescription drugs were cheaper in other countries (for some reason Mexico springs to mind). If this is true, then wouldn’t charging Americans premium prices while simultaneously selling at a discount elsewhere constitute at least selective price gouging?

I feel much better since I’ve given up hope.

13

Check the web. There are a couple of sites there, I forgot where, which are for people who cannot afford to pay the enormous rip-off prices of needed drugs. They help you get them at lower prices through a program.

I am so pissed off at the drug companies that I can barely stand it because they have gone from being a ‘people concerned’ operation in the 50s and 60s to ‘major profit’ orientation in the 80s. Welbutin is produced very cheaply but because it is a good drug, and especially since it helps cut down on nicotine cravings, the pharmaceutical companies have upped the price.

While many will idiotically insist that this is just ‘good business’ and ‘what’s wrong with making a profit,’ I disagree when your product concerns the major health and well-being of millions. Like that AIDS medication they developed some years back that is not a cure but prolongs life. $100 a dosage!! Most AIDS sufferers by then were so drained financially that getting the medication was nearly impossible.

Viagra came out and it costs about $0.10 a pill to produce but they sell it $1.00 each. Prozac, an excellent psychiatric medication is made at about $0.05 a pill and sells for roughly $2.00 each. Plus, the drug companies patent the medication for 10 years to prevent anyone from producing a generic version. I had a dental infection and obtained a prescription for antibiotics. The popular brand name would have run me $25 for the prescription. The generic, which I took, was $8.00.

Look in the stores. Over the counter Excederin costs $6.00 for 100, 500 mgm tablets. Walmart generic, which is just as good, costs $3.78.

The drug companies have mostly forgotten that they are producing products to help people stay alive, to live without pain, disease or to ease their suffering and have decided to concentrate on not only major profits, BUT tie up their products for years to prevent generics from being produced.

People die over this. Those who don’t, suffer needlessly. One should not have to spend nearly half of their income on medication just to function normally.

CAREFUL! We don’t want to learn from this!(Calvin and Hobbs)

14

Techchick said

I imagine that they are sophisticated enough to do price modeling to determine the optimal price. Pricing is like a bell curve and their is a perfect balance between price and distribution. The companies are not amaturesthey have hefty finance departments I think thay can figure this one out.

[quote}
Shit, when I was in junior high I could get speed pills for 50 cents a hit. That is highly illegal shit, and more fun.[/quote]

Most of those pills are ephedrine and/or caffeine which are legal.

Sentenil said

Producing drugs carries a very high cost and a very high risk of failure. What you are asking for is investors to take a high cost, high risk venture for the smallest possible reward.

Would you bet on a roulette wheel with 1/100 odd of a win, a 10,000 minimum and a 5% payout? No, of course not. And neither would investors.

If you lower the reward less money will go into the industry and less drugs will be produced and tested. Which would you prefer, expense drugs and life, or cheap drugs and no hope.

Don’t lose sight of the fact that the pharmeceutical companies are the ones making drugs that save people from suffering and death. I for one have a normal life only because of those geniuses at Warrick. I would gladly pay $200 a month for the privilege of being able to breathe.

Has anyone mentioned that it takes about $500 million to get a drug through the FDA? you want to save money on the drugs, why not hammer at the FDA for the cost of testing?

But what we really want is a great, thoroughly researched, safe effective drug at the price we think is fair without regard to the cost of manufacture. Well I want a $5000 mercedes.

15

No, no, dhanson, you were right the first time. If it gets you high, you need FAA approval as well.

16

GaWd

Insurance companies are not required by law to extend coverage to anyone. They are free to make their own determinations based on cost/benefit analyses as to the risk that potential insureds pose, and to refuse to extend coverage. Insurance companies are also free by law to set caps for various conditions and overall lifetime caps on benefits.

techchick

OK, first thing is, don’t listen to your agent. Your agent doesn’t know shit about anything. And I haven’t even met your agent, but if s/he is anything like the one I dealt with on a daily basis, s/he has no clue. Read the policy itself. There will be a section entitled “Limitations and Exclusions” or something similar.

As for the cost of prescriptions, yes it’s true that a lot of that cost is because of R&D, but a lot of it is also for advertising. There’s been an explosion of drug advertising in the last decade or so. I don’t ever recall seeing prescription drug ads when I was younger; now I can’t watch a sitcom without seeing two or three. Prime-time ads are expensive. When I worked at an HMO, one of my supes told me that in Germany drug ads are forbidden by law. The average price for a drug is about a tenth of what it costs here. I don’t begrudge the drug companies a reasonable profit, but artifically inflating their prices to cover the cost of their ad campaigns disgusts me.

17

Lower drug costs in other countries does not necesarily equate to proof of inflated prices. Some of those countries have price controls and some may have subsidies from the government (though I don’t have proof of the latter.) It may well be that our prices are higher because they are selling drugs at cost in those countries.

As for advertising costs, what product do you know of that doesn’t incur large advertising costs? Even if they are wrong to advertise their product (and they certainly aren’t) of all of the prescription drugs out there, how many do you see advertising on TV? 5? 10? a small percentage.

People don’t have trouble spending $45 for cable because it makes their life a little more enjoyable…or paying $5,000 for a new car because it make life more enjoyable…But when they have to pay $100/month for something that makes their life bearable, suddenly they can’t afford it.

18

Tech -

I realize this is a ranting thread, but some practical advice.

One, did your insurance carrier tell you when you WOULD be able to get it covered? My plan will not cover pre-existing conditions for 6 months. (Luckily, I was here when I started, so I got grandfathered in.) After that, everything is paid for. Now, I know paying for 6 months of the stuff isn’t easy, but it’s better than paying for it forever.

Second, can your doctor prescribe it for smoking cessation, and it WOULD be covered? Trust me, most doctors hate this crap as much as everyone else, and will be willing to help you work around it. Can you get smaple packs to help out for a while?

I’ll also check with my dad - we’ve switched plans over…oh lord, over 10 times, including a period where he was unemployed. His antidepressant was never classified as a pre-existing condition. Admittedly, this may have been because we fought like hell. Just a thought.

Oh, and one thing for Mr. Z. Most people who say they can’t afford medication aren’t spending money on a car. If I didn’t have insurance, I would go broke. I’m on 5 different medications, and I need all of them to live. People here have seen what I’m like without my antidepressant. NOT a pretty picture.

St. Falcon: Patron Saint of Three Minute Mystery Groupies

Environment? Nah. Mood lighting and ambience is what counts.

  • a genuine WallyM7 sig
19

Falcon said [qiote]Oh, and one thing for Mr. Z. Most people who say they can’t afford medication aren’t spending money on a car. If I didn’t have insurance, I would go broke. I’m on 5 different medications, and I need all of them to live. People here have seen what I’m like without my antidepressant. NOT a pretty picture.
[/quote]

I can’t verify the numbers, Falcon, and perhaps I spoke too strongly. I have employees with brand new cars and cable bitching about a $5 co-pay increase. Are they the majority? I don’t know.

But that is not really the point. The point is that people will spend discretionary income on any number of things happily, but get angry about buying meds or getting an uncovered treatment.

It seems that we have created a mindset in this country that medications and healthcare are not a product or service but an entitlement. THey are not. They are one of those costs associated with life like food, shelter and clothing.

{note to the OP: I have asthma, a pre-existing condition, and have never had it denied. My wife take Paxil for a pre-existing anxiety condition and has never been denied. You may not have a problem]

20

[[Now I am pissed at the genetics that contributed to my ADD…fuckin bitch of a birth mother and dickhead of a birthfather.]]

Interesting perspective on a genetic condition. How will you feel if your offspring blame you? The only thing you can blame your parents for is having you to begin with.

The problem, even if your condition is NOT “pre-existing,” is that many of these drugs are not on the formulary dictated by the insurance company. Our medical insurance won’t let us get Ritalin for our son with a co-pay. They will allow us to get the generic equivalent (still for more than the co-pay, but less than the brand name), but in this case the generic doesn’t seem to work like the brand name medication does. Many people, including doctors, have noted this, but the insurance company won’t listen to it. I’m not sure how long we’ll be able to afford this.