I’m not talking about private [insurance]companies. I’m talking about you delivering cold, hard cash into Doctor’s hand. There’s never no place for that.
Private care places don’t have to operate independently of their provisioning of public care, I’m not sure why you think that is what I’m suggesting. If you want a service that isn’t covered by the death panel’s review, then you can shell out from your own pocket. or, heaven forbid, if this became such a ubiquitous problem, I’m sure a crafty free marketeer would offer insurance to cover those things that the death panel prohibits. Of course, this doesn’t happen in any single payer regime nowadays because your prognostications are demonstrably incorrect and generally characterized by lunacy.
And as to your concerns about it being too expensive, allow me to tender a typical conservative answer: don’t like it? can’t afford the alternative? too fucking bad for you, you should have worked harder and saved more.
Yes, and if the death panel chooses not to cover you, you aren’t “covered by the government plan” See how that works?
Why bother? Congress just delivered a big “Shut the fuck up, dildo” to all of the panic-stricken fundie conspiracist nutjob fuckwits whose real agenda is fear that black people, homos, mexicans, and whoever else are going to lead us to the apocalypse via Logan’s Run style policy decisions.
There’s no reason to continue meeting them on their own hyperbolic sky is falling platform. Let them keep making points that wouldn’t be out of place in a Chick tract, while you symbolically dangle your balls on their forehead.
ETA: also, when we have death panels, I’m sure the Republican suckers helping rich people keep their pockets lined will be the first against the wall, so to speak. No loss.
Anyone know the source of this Right Wing Marketing Department Lie? It is quite the whopper, and it’s pretty amazing that SA and a few others got suckered into believing and repeating it. I mean, underneath all the screaming hyperbole there is a question of whether you want profit-motivated, bureaucratic-motivated, or electorally motivated decision makers rationing a scarce resource (health care funds). So whereas the death panels were mostly a figment of Sarah’s imagination there is at least something to be discussed.
But the outright lie of suggesting that anyone has sought to “decree” a program for everyone else is pretty ballsy. Where did it come from?
The GOP’s vision of America began dying roughly 47 years ago when JFK died and Lyndon Johnson, with the one-two punch of socialistic entitlement programs and excruciatingly poor handling of the Vietnam war set the stage for the counter-culture revolution, the effect of which has been dragging this country down ever since. Where our schools were once perfectly capable of teaching kids how to read, write, do math and think, they’re now seemingly incapable of sending people off to college who even know the difference between “there”, “they’re” and “their” and that not every word that ends in “s” takes an apostrophe.
And marriage? “Pah! Who needs that shit? Why should someone have to have a piece of paper to live with the person they love?” And so now, predictably, we have huge numbers of kids being poorly raised in single-family homes with mothers that would under better circumstances be big sisters, and doomed to lives of poverty and deprivation, and dooming their kids to lives that are no better.
And then there’s drugs and the huge, huge number of problems and deaths and misery they have caused…
I could go on and on, but what’s the point? You people don’t give a fuck because you aren’t the type to care about such things in the first place. As long as you can float through life, doing drugs and whatever else feels good, relying on the government to protect you and take care of you and provide for you, you think all is cool and everything is as it should be.
It’s no wonder that this country’s stature in the world has been steadily declining ever since Kennedy was assassinated.
I know, it was only a few years after that that those blacks got the right to vote, and it only got worse from there… God, the horrors of living today.
Remember Newt Gingrich and the Contract With America? Look it up sometime and see what the Republicans did once they were free of fifty years of Democratic domination in Congress.
And then consider that much of Republican expenditure is on top of that which has already been mandated by previous Democratic presidents and congresses. Helll, Republicans could not raise expenses an iota on their own and they would still increase hugely each year just because of Democratic programs already in place.
Sigh No it isn’t dumbass. In free enterprise, companies have to make a profit to stay in business. The government is under no such constraint.
I can’t believe you are actually this stupid. Please tell me you’re just responding reflexively and without thinking it through…Oh, wait, that’s pretty much what liberals are known for anyway, isn’t it?
So did the wars, PLURAL, that we’re trying to end.
This red team/blue team shit has to end. The sooner the better.
Every great thinker has always been on the fringe. Wait, Ford was a Nazi darling, and Edison was a theif. Ok, forget that. Ben Franklin, oh wait, he was a big fan of the crown, and failed his people in regards to the stamp act.
History has taught us little in regards to who might be a national hero or not. What we CAN surmise from history is, the victors write the history books.
I hate the term “hater”. It’s so dismissive, and applies a vindictive tone to whatever argument said person engages in. That said, it seem that most (all if you count the vote) republicans are acting like “haters”. Obstructionist might be a more PC term, but defeating the President on a key initiative has long been a goal of theirs. Haters. Not voting to improve anything at all, just voting to defeat the President. Pussy-ass bitches.
Republicans may have the votes of the rich, and have their interests in mind, but they create more and more disenfranchised voters every day via their policies.
I remember that not one of them voted for the Democrat’s major bills that lead to a surplus of a few billion dollars, then they tried to take credit for it. I also remember that once they got total control of the Congress and the White House, they ran up a deficit of quite a bit of cash for entirely deceptive reasons.
People won’t switch health providers if what the government offers is worse. So if people switch, it will be inherently better. Maybe health is something that is such a basic fundamental right that it should not be run with a goal of profits. But then again, this bill will save us a hundred billion dollars a year while ensuring more people stay healthy and productive. I can see why the Pubs don’t like it
By the way, because you’ve been such a pill, I’m going to tell my doctor tomorrow to take some of your money too! That toe that looks like gangreen? Just a marker! But you’re paying for the doctor to look at it!
Okay, Robot Arm, you’re off the hook. Your comment about free enterprise wasn’t the most stupid one, after all.
Blacks had the right to vote long before the counter-culture revolution, SB. No, really. You could look it up.
The counter-culture had nothing to do with racial equality. No, really, you could look that up, too. Take a look at films of Woodstock and anti-war rallies and be-ins and do-ins and hippies fucking on the sidewalks and parks in San Francisco and tell me how many black people you see.
Black people themselves, dressed in their Sunday best and demonstrating politely and with dignity are far more responsible for having gained their rights than the counter-culture revolutionever was.
So you can take your contention that the counter-culture revolution and all the harm it has caused in this country was necessary to correct racism and shove it into the deepest part of where the sun never shines anyway. Mmkay?
DAMN, I get tired of this shit! :smack: Can we not EVER talk about how the left has fucked things up in this country without some dipshit who was never there in the first place running around screehing about racism?
Far more death and misery has been visited upon the black community as a result of drugs, crime, government projects-turned-ghettoes, drive-by shootings and the acceptance, glamorization and promotion of the gangsta lifestyle than was ever the case in the early-to-mid 20th century.
Interesting that you should interpret history and what is good and bad the way you do. It is an entirely narrow and different viewpoint. I hope your pain subsides.
And by the way, I actually agree with you on one subject: the elected and appointed members of our government (states and federal) should have to buy insurance the same way the rest of us do. That would be really rich. (As in deliciously ironic, not wealthy.)
I remember. I remember a post-November-1994 cartoon showing an elephant in groom’s dress in a carriage with a “Just Married” banner, rolling his eyes in an innocent who-me? expression, and kicking to the curb an astonished bride labeled “Term Limits.”
Not under the current plan, no. But I’ve been talking about when the time comes that single-payer prevails. People will take the path of least financial pain until the time comes that they need urgent or better care, and then they’ll find that none exist because private care can’t compete with government which doesn’t have to make a profit.
That’s fine. You’ll be the happy titty-baby letting everyone else take care of you, while the Pubbies will still be their own men happily making their own way in life while still paying for you to have what you can’t provide for yourself.
All things considered, being conservative is better.
You’re right, sort of. Blacks did have the right to vote prior to that, but they suffered from a lot of intimidation and various other tactics to prevent their voting, which the civil rights act of 1960 was designed to overcome. I was thinking it was 64, for some reason - so it was during Kennedy rather than just past him.
Just to be clear, you seem to be using counter-culture and “the left” interchangably for the purposes of this post. Am I interpreting that correctly?
You were probably opposed to the civil rights act type stuff at the time (if you were politically active - I don’t know how old you are) or if you weren’t around then, you would’ve opposed it if given the chance. People who pine for the good old days and talk about how liberals ruin everything have a very high overlap with the people who would like to obstruct progress on issues like civil rights or women’s rights.
Wait, is this one because the civil rights act passed or what? Please spell out what you’re trying to say here.
I reversed the order of those two quotes. If I may paraphrase:
“Democrats are so bad that Republicans can’t do anything.”
“Hey, look what the Republicans did!”
Who said I’m a liberal?
And my response was a bit hyperbolic, but sincere. To expand on it, slightly, I don’t give a tinker’s damn what happens to insurance companies. If they can continue to offer a service that customers will pay for, good for them. If they can’t, let them go the way of the dodo and the Conestoga wagon; I won’t shed a tear.
But what could possibly bring that about? If I understand Free Enterprise 101, the only thing that would make customers leave the insurance companies is if they find something better and/or cheaper. You predicted the end of the insurance companies. That will mean that government is serving people better than those companies did. I don’t know why that’s a bad thing.
Next time Republicans vote against raising the minimum wage, can we talk about how awful it will be when 8-year-olds are working 60-hours a week to buy bread and water?
And have the same Social Security plan. As it is, government employees are the only workers in America that don’t have to participate in Social Security. How arrogant is that?
On this we can heartily agree.
And now, given that it’s almost 3:00 a.m. and there are getting to be too many of you to fight with anyway, I’m going to pack it in for the night. Like I said, I don’t have too much of a problem with the current bill (what little anyone actually knows of it anyway), so I’m not all that puffed at the moment. Where I really want to see the GOP and everyone else dig in their heels is in regard to single-payer government supervised health care, but I doubt that will come anytime soon. Many of the people responsible for the bail-outs, the so-called stimulus package and today’s health bill are likely to be gone soon anyway, and changes are likely to be small and incremental for a long time after that.
