Honest Question: Why are the republicans so pissed about this health care thing?

I don’t understand the doom and gloom surrounding this whole thing. Examples include this article calling it the republicans’ worst legislative defeat in 50 years, and this poll that says that 24% of republicans think Obama might be the antichrist. I’m an independent who wasn’t enamored with the reform (from what little I invested in trying to understand it), but hardly see the need to threaten to move to Costa Rica. Especially considering that they just had an 8 year run where they had their way with the country, why are they so up in arms now? I’d prefer not hearing “they are all evil morons who hate puppies” type responses from you-know-who, I’m honestly curious just what is making them so upset.

Any response you get is going to fall under this at it’s most basic and fundamental. It really can be as simple as Republicans continue to want their own way and want to bitch and moan that they don’t have it and aren’t getting it.

Fine, but what, exactly, IS their own way? All I hear is “no handouts!” etc., I never heard from them any fully fleshed out alternative health care plan. Or did they just think the current system was fine as is and this new one is wost ever?

I don’t know what the reactions were when Social Security and Medicare passed, but millions have benefited from them. Are they perfect solutions? Probably not, but they ain’t that bad.

I suspect the healthcare bill will produce similar results.

“No handouts” IS their alternative. And if that kills you, tough. Helping people in any way is Socialism, and therefore Pure Evil in their eyes. They don’t like Medicare or Social Security, either; in their ideal society the poor and sick would be left to die in the streets. And as well, they oppose anything whatsoever proposed under Obama, anything he supports regardless of its necessity, worth, or whether they themselves have supported it in the past.

You seem to want some answer that makes them look like reasonable, moral people with good reasons for their behavior; the answer is, they aren’t and there isn’t.

WRONG! Why can’t you lefties ever credit the idea that maybe conservatives are not heartless ogres. We just have different ideas on how to actually ***achieve ***the same goals you guys profess.

It was never my goal to provide Obama with a “Waterloo” and thus destroy his presidency. That was the Republican goal.

He did get his Waterloo. But as Wellington.

The fuss was never about health care as such, but about preventing a signature Democratic achievement that would lock the Pubs out of the majority for a few years more. Nothing more than that, really.

Because they consistently act like heartless ogres.

I don’t believe that for a moment. The goals of conservatives are clearly very different from anything I or the left in general would want.

Your “ideas” have been to do absolutely nothing about the problem, only to denounce and obstruct those who have tried.

Yes, we do have some pretty significant and far better health care alternatives. There are two reasons we were unable to get anywhere. First, we have not had the power to push it through in a long time, and the last time it was we were trying for Social Security reform instead (which failed).

Second, there are Republicans and then there are Conservatives and Libertarians. These are not the same groups. Bush was and remains a Big-Government type along with the likes of Trent Lott. They were very effective in political logrolling for more and bigger handouts to all and sundry. This was a huge part of why Conservatives and Libertarians effectively dropped their support and didn’t bother to vote in the last election.

Significant aspects of what we want include deregulation of the state-by-state restriction, long-term fiscal responsibility (and regardless of that the Bush-era deficits were bad, they were about an order of magnitude less that what we will have now), and y’know, actual American liberty in their healthcare choices. We want more liberty and more choice, whereas the Democrats essentially just forced everyone in the nation to buy the same cover-everything plan which has a number of horribly idiotic ideas. It’s pretty damn similar to the failed plans in Massachusetts and Tennessee, but on a national scale, loaded with pork, passed by a deceptive process of dubious constitutionality, with provisions which amount to forcing people to go out and buy things. And if allowed to stand, peope are functionally reduced to subjects of the national government, which may now tell us what to buy and when, with our private money, regardless of whether or not we ever set foot outside of state lines.

Frankly, Liberals (as usual) have not paid one whit of attention to what they just passed. They were so obsessed with achieving “victory” that they failed to think twice about what they were actually doing. When they do wake up and realize what happened, they will scream bloody murder and become absolutely furious with the same laws and mechanisms they’ve just created - and then demand even mroe power so they can just get it right this time. And again. And again. Every program becomes a reason for its own infinite expansion. And that’s just the beginning of what was wrong. The CBO scoring process has been gamed so much its now irrelevant.

Now, I suppose it could be worse. In fact, I think Congressional Democrats think that they can just go back and ‘fix it’ later as-is. But… it won’t happen. It won’t be like they think. They don’t understand it now, apparently hardly thought about what it actually said IF they read it at all.

Such as? I followed this fairly closely and All I ever heard was a sort of nebulous harping on interstate competition and a wan squeaking about tort reform. Surely you don’t believe that the private sector is responsible enough to regulate itself? We’ve seen quite clearly what happens when any one private sector gets enough freedom, Those in charge do whatever it takes to make a mint, then burn it to the ground.

Frankly it seems that at the base of every conservative argument I’ve heard, no matter how well reasoned and plausible, it remains: “It’s MY money, and if you can’t make enough to afford healthcare then tough!”. I think we can do better than that in a society that claims to be on the forefront of ethics and human rights. I had this same problem during the presidential campaign. For all the squalling of the right about Obama’s lack of clarity on his policies, McCain gave far less information, even on his own website. I just don’t see a fully fleshed out plan, or a motivation borne of anything other than self-centered greed. Not the “other’s must suffer so I can be rich” sort, but just a callous disregard for the welfare; physical, financial, or otherwise of the people that make up this country.

Request elaboration

Cut for length and clarity

This is exactly what I’m talking about. One idea, and then a bunch of rhetoric, full of sound and fury but without any real substance. “long term fiscal responsibility” What does that mean? What will we cut? What will we spend on? “Actual American Liberty” Such as? Nobody is forcing you out of your plan, there are just more options on the table, and poor people will be covered instead going to ER and racking up huge bills that they won’t pay. As for your last point, I’m not comfortable with the mandate myself, but having everyone insured is far preferable to allowing irresponsible people to frag the entire system down with huge bills from the ER. I would vote for UHC in second, but apparently that’s tantamount to making us all drink tainted cool-aid that will turn us all into gay hippies. I don’t get it.

Request clarification.

Ahem. Guys. Cheshire. The Senate and House Republican’s plan is basically ‘NO NOT THAT.’ They came up with a 15 page flyer once with no real numbers in it. There was never any fully fleshed out alternative. There might have been an attempt at one, but by the point they started bringing it up, the Dem one had already been through congress. And the only apparent reason it existed, if it did, was to try to get the dems to throw out what they had and start over.

Now, this isn’t saying that all republicans say ‘the plan is NO NOT THAT’. However, it is saying that the Republican Party’s official plan was, to quote Groucho Marx, ‘Whatever it is, I oppose it!’

Are you an elected official, Cheshire?

I don’t know. The wingnuts I know in person seem to feel ‘their’ country is occupied by a foreign force now that the democrats are in charge.

Its weird. Its almost like they think the USSR conquered the country and declared Marx’s birthday a national holiday.

I really don’t know. My impression is just that the right has become more and more radical as time went on. Barry Goldwater used to be considered an extremist, that is why he lost in '64 by such wide margins. But even he was terrified of how crazy the GOP of the 1990s was. He even wanted to write a book with John Dean about the takeover of the GOP by extremists.

However as of 2010 the GOP of the 90s is starting to appear moderate compared to what we have now. I really don’t know why/how this happened, but it did.

So in conclusion, I don’t know. The ones I know seem to almost feel anyone who isn’t a conservative is foreign or not a real american. So I guess they feel persecuted/violated/invaded.

It means running trillion dollar wars off budget when your boy is in the white house.

That is my fear also, that they will have similar results. I will collect SS but my kids question if they will.

Medicare was susposto be health care for retirees, with out her own additional insurance through the Teamsters, my mother in law would be in big financial trouble.

Medicare is only a little bit of what it was promised to be and it is expensive.

The extremist wing that is currently a dominant player in the GOP, combined with the right wing media entertainers have painted the party into a corner, particularly on this issue.

They portrayed Obama as a Socialist-Marxist-Facist who is a muslim with a racist christian pastor. He was not born in the US,and is a pretender to the presidency. He is inherently evil, and just may be the Antichrist who is determined to destroy the country.

That is how Obama has been portrayed to the Republican voter base. How do you negotiate with that?

You can’t.

Therefore, you must oppose anything that this evil person proposes. They put themselves in an absolutely unreasonable political position of opposition to everything, and compromise with nothing. It has damaged the Republican Party.