When David Bowie and others during the 70s (& Marilyn Manson today) experimented with androgynous look, did they do some from a deeper meaning of the symbolism of the androgyne/hermaphrodite, to do with for instance unity or perfection of spirit, etc. or perhaps duplicity – or was it merely a fashion statement or for the shock value?
Depends on whom you mean. I think the guy in Dead or Alive in the 1980’s was a bit “transgender” in real life (though he still identifies as male). Bowie has said that he saw something in the air, felt an affinity for it, & ran with it.
It is becoming more and more popular these days. Just look at Justin Bieber… Since can’t tell what he/she is.
? Justin Bieber is a boy. Not a grown man, certainly, but definitely a boy. Seems obvious to me.
All of the above, I think.
And ya, Bieber is a boy.
I’m guessing the Bieber post is a joke because if anything it’s become a lot less popular these days - the most “androgynous” current popstar is probably Adam Lambert and he’s just a man who wears a bit of makeup. There is also that guy from Tokio Hotel but again it’s not quite as blatant as it was back in the 70s and 80s. You certainly wouldn’t see someone like Boy George or Pete Burns these days becoming hugely popular. Maybe that’ll change soon, after all it all goes in cycles.
Grace Jones and Annie Lennox are two examples that come to mind of androgynous women, and while they’ve had a big influence on the fashions of current stars like Lady Gaga, the whole “woman who looks like a man” isn’t really part of it.
In response to the OP I’ll echo another poster and say you’ll have to investigate individual stars, because it depends. I know that in the case of Boy George (who you’ll notice very rarely wears actual women’s clothes) once said that women ask him why he wears makeup and he says “For the same reason you do, to make myself look nicer.”
I’m not sure even Bowie knew what he was shooting for in the '70s. In Manson’s case I suspect that shock value is a large component of it, but he also seems to have some fairly sophisticated ideas about celebrity and public persona, so that makes it harder to evaluate.
You wanna see someone who’s doing it for “unity or perfection of spirit,” have a look at Genesis P-Orridge. Great musician, but yikes.
The androgynous look is still not completely unpopular: It’s what Lady Gaga was doing for a while. (Well, it counts as much as Bowie–it’s not that he actually looked like a girl.) My current "celebrity’ crush is on an internet reviewer who is a bit androgynous, and she’s far from alone.
I do admit it is less popular amongst males, and my theory is that it has to do with gay awareness: with the prevalence of stars coming out, everyone who tries an androgynous look is assumed to be gay. And that can be bad for a straight celebrity’s image–people still have a hard time accepting gay people playing straight romantic leads, for example. We are at an odd stage right now.
What about heavy metal and glam rock? All those guys with long hair, makeup, going around stage topless. C’man, that’s androgynous, right?
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It’s a tenuous link to the OP but I had to smile when I saw the Subject line because it made me think of this live cover of “Space Oddity.”
Before that nice color version got put up, there was a much worse-quality black and white version and I’ve been amazed at the number of people who thought she was a guy. It has almost 119,000 views and 200 Comments, because it’s gotten some attention by being in the Related Videos of the Cat Power ccover. Most of the “I thought it was a dude” comments have been deleted, but there are still a few around, even after a disclaimer was put on the video that yes, it’s a woman.
Here’s a funny story she tells of someone asking her if she was a transsexual (nope, those boobs are real), and here’s a different song that shows her high voice as well as her ultra-low voice.
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I think Bowie looks like Maggie Smith, especially in the video for “All You Pretty Things.”
Good God, why is this woman not a star!?!
Of course, even I don’t have any albums by her (which I should correct).
I miss those days. I’m weary of skinheads and rappers and rednecks and just plain plug ugly. Which I can already see all around me. Yes, I am shallow, looks-ist, and no raving beauty.
That androgyny, that hint of teh gay, is WHY David Bowie and Marc Bolan so interesting to my groupie friends, and me, back in the day.
:eek: Sorry I’m late on a response. I hadn’t checked back into the thread and my husband told me about your reply. THANK YOU for listening, and I’m glad you hear it! She’s not a star mainly because she doesn’t have what it takes to be a star. Talent, yes, she has that, definitely. She’s a world-class artist with 11 albums, all of which in my oh-so-biased opinion are brilliant. It’s all the other stuff that one has to do. She hates self-promotion, rarely plays live, has never done a full tour, has never made a video, lives in Boondocks, NY, and just doesn’t think being famous is all that big a deal, much to the disappointment/admiration of her fans. It’s only ever been about the music for her. There’s more, but that’s the gist. It bothers her fans more than it does her. I think she’ll be “discovered” someday. Not by the general public, but by musicologists, musicians and music lovers.
Good luck, most are out of print, though you can find some at CD Baby and iTunes. You can hear them all though if you’re so inclined. All 11 albums are on YouTube as audio-only tracks, and also as streaming audio though a Flash player. Don’t let the monsters scare you, they exist for a reason. Plus, many many many of her songs are available as free downloads, no catch. All with her permission of course.
Any questions, or anything that’s not there you’d like to download, just ask. If you want an album that’s out of print, I can provide you with high-quality mp3s, and all Happy wants in exchange is a donation to an animal shelter. Better that than buying on ebay or amazon, where some of her albums go for outrageous prices. As I type, there’s a Warpaint at ebay going for $34.00, a bargain compared to amazon sellers whose prices range from $77.00 to $173.02! Stuff like that amuses Happy, but she’s not getting any of the money, she doesn’t like that fans are getting ripped off, and would rather see the money go to help animals.
Thanks for posting, seriously. You made my day.