In the physical world it is illogical, but not in the spiritual, which is really where we live and where the Word really exists. Again I refer you to the 10 commandments, which there are 3 written versions in our physical world, each one is written differently physically (Ex 20 2-17, 34 11-27, Deut 5, 6-21). If this was just a book of man, and one that man was claiming it was of God these 3 should be the same, but they are different. I believe, actually I know the reason is that they are the exact same spiritually, but in our physical world there are different ways of expressing that spiritual truth. When we hear the 10 commandments, no matter what version, our spirit hears a single set of 10, no matter the text differences.
This also goes for different translations, spiritually the text is the exact same, though there are different physical representations of it. As we read the King James version, or the NIV our spirit hears the Word in a way that is above language of man.
God is much higher then us, His ways are higher then ours, but He wants us to learn His ways, as such He wants to reveal the truth to man, which requires challenging man’s preconceptions, giving man a book that seems so illogical and contradictory but at the same time is absolute truth.
The Word was always there, it was revealed over time. Much like man’s study of science, before Einstein discovered E=mc^2 the physical reality previously existed. Man didn’t create a new law of physics, just discovered one that was there. The Word is eternal.
The warning is not to add man’s word to God’s. We can see this is what happened to Eve here:
God’s warning: (Gen 2:16b -17)
“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”
Eve’s take on it(Gen 3 2b-3):
Bold mine, which is a addition to the Word of God.
Why Eve added ‘and you must not touch it’ to the Word of God is not clear, we can assume that perhaps Eve added it for a extra level of protection, as we all sometimes do, for instance we know we should not shoot up heroine, if that was the rule by God, we might add we should not even touch it, though there is nothing wrong with touching the syringe. It seems to protect us. But it was that exact addition that allowed the serpent (who is Satan, as defined in Revelation), the foothold into Eve to get her to fall. The warning in the book of Revelation comes true:
After that man has endured all the plagues in the book, or will in the case of future prophecy. So even though that verse was not revealed to Eve the law of God still existed, along with the effects, much like E=mc^2 existed before man discovered it.
This is a false argument, the Word is not divisible as the Word is God. It unquestionably refers to the entire Bible, along with the defining of the serpent as Satan. It shows the return to God that we lost in Genesis. As man and God are separated in Genesis by sin, in Revelation we see man and God reunited.
Again the Word is eternal, the revelation to man happens over time. Also since it is the NT that quotes Jesus’ acceptance of the OT, that part of the NT must be accepted as true if we are to take Jesus’ Word for it.
God’s command is seek Him with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. If you do those things He will bring you to His Word and prove it to you. On the way it may take you through the Koran, or atheism, or Buddhism, or numerous paths. He knows we are groping in the dark, He will see that and send us help.
God can use everything to teach us, but we need to understand His Spirit’s leading to understand them. The thing God is looking for is for us to seek Him and lean not on our own understanding.
The Holy Spirit will lead you to His Word and teach you how to use it, which to me has been used to point out false teachings of man. When man states something that is untrue, the Holy Spirit will give me the scripture that counters it.
Jesus’ use of it as the Word of God is pretty much a slam dunk IMHO, along with :
God makes it clear that every word from Him is very important, not to have any excluded.
Part of the reason is so we can use it as a weapon against the enemy:
While they don’t need to cling to untrue beliefs about the Bible, our disagreement is what is untrue. You propose it’s a book, perhaps partly inspired by God perhaps not, but put together by man. I propose it is the unalterable Word of God who used man (sometimes with impure intentions) to distribute it to show His glory, and it is the Holy Spirit who is the only teacher of the Word, and that man must put aside all of man’s teachings to let God teach one from the beginning.
kanicbird I refuse to continue this hijack. You will continue with the same tired old tortured logic you always do. Anyone can take verses out of context and insist they mean a certain thing to support their own personal beliefs. That is painfully evident in this last post of yours as you randomly picking verses about the word as if they refer to the Bible. There’s no indication they do. I don’t call that seeking the truth. I call that worshiping man’s tradition and twisting the passages to fit a preconceived doctrine. Good luck with that.
Thank you for that link, Diogenes, I’d never read that epistle from Clement of Alexandria before. There are a couple of sentences in it which perfectly sum up why it’s practically impossible to engage Christians like ITR champion in real debate.
Clement writes:
In other words it matters not that what you say is true, if it isn’t truly true they’ll feel free to ignore it.
No, I don’t think this is fair to interpret from the text. If it merely mentioned “messages” or “the word”, as indeed it does sometimes, then i’d say you could interpret the Bible as you have there. But it specifically points out letters and even strokes cannot be changed. It makes no sense to refer to the spiritual message of the Bible in those terms; it seems to me a very clear sign that hear the actual physical prescence of the book is being talked about.
That’s illogical. For one thing, my interpretation is different from yours, which can mean one of two things; either you are incorrect on this point, or you are correct but the human spirit is such that it is not always capable of fully understanding the spiritual Word, in which case your interpretation is as suspect as mine.
The Bible seems illogical and contradictory? That’s a new one on me.
