De-clawing cats

Great Debates
41

IMHO, cats are annoying 4-legged allergins, but I do have something to add to the debate:

My local newspaper (The Providence Journal) reports that cats are disappearing locally (in Lincoln, RI) due to the 600-800 coyotes roaming the state. A state wildlife biologist says:

So it appears to me that if you take away the cats primary means of defense, you should definitely keep it inside thereafter.

(On preview, I see that someone already mentioned this advice, so consider this to be added emphasis.)

42

A false dichotomy, yes. You are assuming that rights are absolute. But (almost) no right is absolute. Almost every right can be overcome, in some situation, by some other right. In this case, the right of animals to generally be left unmutilated is overcome by the necessity of organized society not to be overrun by feral animals. As humans who have bred and continue to breed cats and dogs, it falls to us to exercise responsible stewardship over the animals we breed. This means that we must humanely care for them and protect them from unnecessary harm. Spaying and neutering of domestic animals are necessary toward this stewardship. Declawing, tail-bobbing, and Bonsai-kittening are not. In my opinion, declawing amounts to unnecessary harm. Our obligations toward our pets takes precedence over our obligations toward our furniture. But our obligation toward self-protection and protection of others of our own species takes precedence over our obligations toward our pets.

I don’t favor rights-language because rights-language leads, in all but the most trivial of cases, to this sort of conflict where two rights interfere with one another. I prefer to look at obligations (the duty to perform some act for or on behalf of someone else, or to refrain from such action) rather than rights (the ability to demand the performance, or to prohibit the performance, of some act by another party). Yes, I realize that in Hohfeldian relational logic, rights and duties are correlated, but one rarely finds oneself arguing with Wesley Hohfeld (if for no other reason than that he is dead). What you refer to as the “right of animals not to be surgically altered” is really just a part of our duty of responsible stewardship.

43

Which is why is become perfectly ok to declaw a cat who scratches people, but not one who scratches only furniture. Since most cats I know have scratched their owners at some time or another (in the case of one co-worker leading to “cat scratch fever”), its easy to change the justification to suit your ethics.

Now granted, its a change in justification - and a more common justification is “I got this cat in college when I had trashed furniture anyway, I’ve grown up and gotten grown up furniture (or would like to) and I don’t want the cat wrecking it.” As has been mentioned, this is made worse by the belief that younger cats recover quickly, while older cats take a long time (my cat was 11 years old when we declawed her to protect the other cat - and it was very traumatic for her - but that was years ago before the laser surgery and pain killers that have been described here). At the same time, the reality is that some people do not feel an obligation to put the temporary comfort of their cat before their desire to get a decent couch - and the choice come down to declaw the cat or put the cat up for adoption - and risk it not being adopted. Does it suck that people feel they can casually dispose of pets? Sure. But, as has been pointed out, pets are property and as long as the disposal is handled humanely, they are within their rights.

44

I’m not afraid of a slippery slope, I’m dug in ;).

IMO declawing is in the category of “not ideal, but better than abandoning/killing the pet involved”. I personally don’t do it, because I’ve never had a pet so destructive I needed to. It would have been overkill.

Neither of my cats are declawed. I have had some damage to furniture. Then again, I don’t buy the “couch gotta last 20 years” thing either. I think a 5-year replacement cycle is reasonable. As long as the damage is slight enough that my furniture merely looks “lived in” at the end of this period, then the cats and I can coexist happily.

There are a few things that most individuals can’t live with in a pet (or roomate for that matter :)). Like incontinence. We had that situation with a young, healthy stray my parents took in when I was in high school. She was just as happy to crap under the dresser as she was to crap in the (spotless) litterbox. Only someone who’s pathologically apathetic about filth could tolerate this. I couldn’t live with a roomate who kept casually crapping on the floor either.

Occasionally clawing to furniture, blinds, carpets wood, etc can be that extreme. I have a cat who literally has left grooves in part of a door jamb from scratching. It’s like having a miniature grizzly, marking his territory. In this case, I didn’t care. it was crappy student slum apartment, and the main reason he thought it was such a great scratching post was because it was already so banged up and nail-holed he could get a good grip. He’s left the woodwork in my current apartment alone. He doesn’t scratch smooth surfaces. So I never had to get him declawed, even when I got some “good stuff”.

Seriously, why don’t you try your cat with the new sofa before declawing? You can make a vet appointment anytime. Some cats will completely avoid new furniture for a while. (I had a cat that wouldn’t sleep on my new couch for a month. It was scary.) Some cats only scratch certain surfaces, your cat may not find leather appealing to the claws.

Cats don’t seem to like smooth surfaces to claw, which is why one spot get a real going over. Once it’s all snagged, it’s their new favorite spot. In my experience, new furniture is not particularly attractive to cats because of this, as long as you have a scratching post or even an old chair that you let them use.

My point is, it’s a continuum.

I don’t think you should declaw your cats because of concern about future scratching, or because of a few snagged threads on a 25 year old couch. At that point, I think the cat’s enjoyment in his bad-ass clawed nature should be considered against the actual cost/incovenience of keeping him off the furniture. As previous posters have noted most cats can be trained against scratching.

declawing may be the only solution for very destructive cats, and they’re likely to end up dead if their owners don’t declaw.

And Beelzebubba I agree with KellyM that spaying is not comparable. Spaying actually benefits cats more than humans. Strays are the biggest vectors for Feline Leukemia and FIP which are extremely contagious and have no cure. In this area, unvacinated strays usual have feline leukemia, and die within a few year of injury, disease, or simply getting run down in the winter and being unable to keep themselves fed. Meanwhile infecting any unvaccinated pets that they may tangle with as well. IMO supporting spaying pets for birth control is fully compatible with the idea that animals have a right to not be casually injured, maimed or killed.

45

Because I don’t want to even risk it. Why should I?

Where has it been shown that declawing a cat is not only harmful to a cat, but cruel?

I sure don’t see it made here, and I don’t see it made by people outside of this board either.

What this seems to boil down to is an issue of animal rights.

Well I’m sorry, but as much as I stand for animal rights in the general scheme of things, I really don’t see where it applies here, unless, of course, you put a cats wellbeing on par or at an equal level with those of humans.

That’s pretty ludicrous, if you ask me.

It’s not saying animals should be treated with a disregard to their well being- not at all- just that the immediate concerns of the animal must be compared with the long term and overall concerns of the animal.

In this case, I can’t see where a few hours of minor discomfort or pain is seriously detrimental to the cats over quality of life- it isn’t.

What I wonder as I read through some of these responses is what some of these people think of the current training techniques out there that deal with animals, or in this case, a cat?

Do these techniques ever cross the line? Do they cause concern? How does repeated spraying of a cat with a water bottle in the attempt to train the animal not harmful to their quality of life? What about the capasin that’s constantly being promoted as a means to stop scratching- cruel and harmful?

46

CnoteChris yup, I didn’t personally make any statements about why I consider declawing your cat a last resort. I thought that had been adressed by previous posters. I won’t say cruel, because I again, I think in certain circumstances it may be the only solution.

It’s a surgery. Period. It does cause pain. Period. There can be complications. It’s up to you to decide if this surgery is necessary for your cat, but it seems to be more than

The site richardb linked to is a vet FAQ. It doesn’t seem to be particularly biased but it does say a week to 2 weeks recovery, pain meds probably required. Anything that requires a week + of meds is painful in my experience. Think of the last injury you had that had you on pain meds for a week. Do you consider than minor? Was it distressing? How much of your distress was aleviated by knowing that it was minor and would go away soon? Will your cat know that?

It will reduce your cat’s ability to defend itself if it is ever attacked by a dog/fox/coyote, etc. Its instincts are a)puff up, hiss and claw at the face to startle it off. Or b)make a mad dash up the nearest tree and get above the fray.
Without claws, instinctual behavior is ineffective to say the least. This is a real concern for any cat that goes outdoors. Or for that matter, escapes outdoors.

For me it does come down to if

I guess I do think my cat’s ability to feel pain is as acute as mine. I do think their ability to be distressed is analagous to ours (though they seem to suffer less mental distress. But again, they can’t comfort themselves by looking to the future either.) And, though I would help a human in distress first if resources are limited, I do think that an animal’s bodily comfort and ability to defend itself should be weighed against your new couch’s potential damage.

(On rereading your initial statement)

Sounds like your mind’s made up and you’re going to leave by “the same door as in you went”.

If we’re voting ala IMHO my opinion is you should declaw your cat rather than dump it or have it euthanized.

But you did add it to a GD thread :wink:

I’m very wary of trivializing this for anyone who might be reading along, thinking about getting a kitten. Their mind may not yet be made up, and they may not consider surgery kinder than spraying a cat with water, etc.

47

When a cat is declawed, the last joint of the “finger” is removed. This is not import because the cat plays the piano, this is important because a cat will normally walk on his finger tips. When the cat can no longer do this, it becomes detrimetal to the underlying musculature even extending to the muscles on his back.

A close analogy is not in our human ability to play the piano, but try walking on your heal without letting the front of you foot touch the ground. They are toes after all and not fingers. To extend the analogy, when you declaw your cat you’re effectively cutting off the front of their feet. This is not apparent because they’ve got four of them and can maintain their balance. If your cat could understand what had happened and could talk to you about it, I’m fairly certain he’d call you out for the evil bastard you’d have to be to have him declawed.

I’ve got two cats. Neither of them are or will ever be declawed. They both love to climb trees. What’re your little mutant science experiments doing now?

48

My mutant science experiment is probably napping on the couch right now - he doesn’t climb trees because he doesn’t go outside - I think its cruel to expose cats to cars, dogs, FIV, etc - and inconsiderate to expose my neighbors to kitty using their flowerbeds as a litterbox - but to each his own in the world of animal cruelty. And he is apparently happier to be napping on the couch than dead - since I would have put him to sleep rather than had the risk of him scratching my kids again.

But thanks for asking.

Check out Kinsey’s post on how declawing is (or at least can) happen nowadays. Its no longer necessarily a matter of de-jointing your cat.

49

As I said in my previous post, NOT ANYMORE. Most vets use the laser technique now. Grab your cat’s paw. Press on the pad to make the claw pop out. See? Now imagine if you had a medical laser. Just laser off the “nail” part. That’s it. That’s what my vet did. My cats still have their entire finger joint. They are very happy, content and wonderful cats. I would not have done it if he was going to use the old remove-the-joint way. They came home the day after the de-clawing, had no bandages, and were eating, using the litterbox and most importantly,** running around and jumping** on the furniture as usual, so I can only assume they weren’t in any great pain.

I don’t let them go out. We have a secure screened-in porch where they spend many happy hours, watching the birds and squirrels. I have several of those window perches where they spend the afternoons soaking up the sunshine.
Another sticky point regarding cats…why do you let your cats go out? Outdoor cats are more prone to disease, ticks, fleas, and accidents.
My vet recommends keeping cats indoors. My cats (all three) were adopted from the Defenders of Animal Rights. When I signed the adoption papers, there was a clause in it that I would make them indoor-only cats. Is it cruel to keep them “cooped up” in the house?

50

We have two cats, both of which had their front claws – claw only, no loss of joint – removed as kittens. It was done on the advice of our veterinarian, who promised it would be relatively painless, and do them no bodily harm other than the loss of the nail itself. He was good to his word.

Both cats are very happy and well adjusted, both can still defend themselves, both can still catch birds and rodents on the balcony (which never ceases to amaze me, since it’s about 6x5 and two stories up), and both still enjoy the pleasure of scratching with the front paws, even though it does my furniture, clothing, skin, etc. absolutely no harm. They don’t seem to realize that the claws are gone.

They are happy cats, well cared for, affectionate, playful, and healthy.

Were it not for us taking them in, one of our cats would most likely have starved to death in the woods (found at only 6 weeks, completely helpless), and the other would likely have been sent to the pound. Both cats were BIG TIME scratchers, so much so that I don’t think we could have kept them around with claws.

If some of you choose to think we are immoral for having them de-clawed, fine. But I honestly believe our cats would disagree.

There is no such thing as a “right” answer to this question in my view. A good pet owner can be trusted to make this decision with the animal’s best interest in mind, and should be.

51

From the headlines
Women’s fight over cat heads to court - 1 says the other broke her word on declawing

52

I’m not much of a philosopher, but I do train cats. So I’ll put the matter this way:

Have you ever seen an abandoned kitten, declawed and starving? I have. The little critter was lucky the coyotes hadn’t eaten her.

Declawing is a big deal. For responsible owners, it means a commitment that your pet will never go outdoors unsupervised again for its entire life. Even if you move. Even if it becomes incontinent in its old age. Cats can live 18-20 years or more.

So think hard about your decision. If switching from a sisal rope scratching post to a carpet covered scratching post can solve your problem, common sense says try that first.

The most important things to remember when training a cat are consistency and firmness. You must enforce the house rules every time a cat violates them. “Letting things slide” every now and then just doesn’t work. Keep your cool when you’re training them. They’ll test your seriousness, but they’ll only trust you if you keep your temper.

53

This is good advice no matter what side of the declawing fence you come down on. Letting an 18 year old incontinent cat outside with claws is only slightly more humane than letting that same cat outside without claws. Turning an inside cat into an outdoor cat because its inconvenent for you to have an indoor cat isn’t terribly humane - the cat doesn’t have a whole lot of experience with outside and in my part of the country (Minnesota) is impractical months out of the year.

Getting a pet is a committment. Your life will probably change a lot in the time you have the pet.

54

I recently had to give up my cats (moved in with someone who meant a lot more to me than my cats, but was very allergic). If I had had them declawed, I would not have been able to give them to a friend of a friend who had a farm where they could run around and catch critters all day long (which they love).

Just something to keep in mind.

55

This has some useful information. Most of the page is about exotic cats, but the section on declawing would most likely apply to domestic cats as well.

56

[slight hijack]
I’ve read all the posts, but I can’t remember if someone was actually opposed to spaying and neutering. Anyway, I thought I would post a link to an article regarding the importance of getting your cat spayed/neutered.

http://www.petsmart.com/articles/article_5768.shtml

One thing about altered males: they’re at greater risk of developing urinary tract infections, which are more dangerous to males than females because of the risk of blockage.

Oh, and my cat actually hates me giving her these anti-biotic pills I’ve been giving her for the last week more than she hated the declawing. Four more days. I’ll never make it.

57

maybe this is a pretty arbitrary way I see it but…

a.) If you are declawing your cat because he/she is hostile, scratches and is too old to be a good candidate for adoption-then declawing is the best of two crappy situations.

b.) If you are declawing your cat because you’re afraid your furniture is going to suffer-well, either give the cat back when it’s young and you can see that it can’t be trained or don’t adopt a cat at all-get another sort of pet. I just feel that if you are subordinating your cat’s life and interest to material posessions then perhaps you don’t deserve to have the cat and would be better off with another animal or no animal at all.

We have two semi-outdoor kitties (they’re let out for specific times of the day but they’re indoors at night and infrequently during the day). I did a lot of research before we went to the shelter and warned my parents that scratching could become an issue. We agreed that rather than declaw the kitten it would be easier to just give it back to the shelter-the kittens go fast. Our first cat we got as a kitten and he shows no interest in our nice furniture whatsoever-just our crappy rec room furniture. Our second kittie we adopted as an adult cat but we decided to hell with the furniture-we really didn’t care that much. She doesn’t touch it easier.

I think you have to think about these things BEFORE you get the cat. A pet, like any other LIVING creatures, poses problems and inconveniences and I personally don’t believe that I have the right to cut and chop it to suit my tastes-rather, I wouldn’t have taken up the privilege at all.

58

maybe this is a pretty arbitrary way I see it but…

a.) If you are declawing your cat because he/she is hostile, scratches and is too old to be a good candidate for adoption-then declawing is the best of two crappy situations.

b.) If you are declawing your cat because you’re afraid your furniture is going to suffer-well, either give the cat back when it’s young and you can see that it can’t be trained or don’t adopt a cat at all-get another sort of pet. I just feel that if you are subordinating your cat’s life and interest to material posessions then perhaps you don’t deserve to have the cat and would be better off with another animal or no animal at all.

We have two semi-outdoor kitties (they’re let out for specific times of the day but they’re indoors at night and infrequently during the day). I did a lot of research before we went to the shelter and warned my parents that scratching could become an issue. We agreed that rather than declaw the kitten it would be easier to just give it back to the shelter-the kittens go fast. Our first cat we got as a kitten and he shows no interest in our nice furniture whatsoever-just our crappy rec room furniture. Our second kittie we adopted as an adult cat but we decided to hell with the furniture-we really didn’t care that much. She doesn’t touch it either except for very occasionally and we say “BAD MISSY” in a loud and angry voice she runs away and doesn’t do it for weeks at a time, after which process is repeated.

I think you have to think about these things BEFORE you get the cat. A pet, like any other LIVING creatures, poses problems and inconveniences and I personally don’t believe that I have the right to cut and chop it to suit my tastes-rather, I wouldn’t have taken up the privilege at all.

59

We have two cats. I consider them tools, not pets. They live outside, and their job is to keep rodents (especially mice) away from the house. And they do an excellent job of this, IMO.

Of course, we feed them cat food. And I built a shelter for them (a small insulated “cat house” w/ 4 incandescent bulbs for heat during the winter). But again, they’re tools to us, and their utility is considered a practical necessity in the rural location where we live.

60

To answer the OP, we did get our cats’ front paws declawed, in an effort to keep them from scratching up the house’s exterior wood work. It hasn’t affected their rodent control duties in the slightest.