Dealing with the at-fault driver's insurance company

In My Humble Opinion
1

On June 24, my wife and I bought a used car from a dealership. We negotiated the price, including all taxes and dealer fees, to an even $20,000. The car itself was like $18,600 of that.

On June 25, less than 24 hours later, my wife was rear-ended on the interstate in a three-car collision. Our lovely new car was totaled.

Finally, this past Friday, the insurance for one of the other drivers accepted liability (apparently against the driver’s statements). Thank god.

Now, from my perspective, we had the car less than 24 hours. In order to make us right, we should have a comparable “new” car, at no additional cost to us.

The insurance company disagrees. They say that they’ll pay book value for the car, plus tag and taxes; but they won’t pay the dealer fees. In this case, the dealer fees were about $600. (It still resulted in our getting the car cheaper than we would’ve gotten it elsewhere; we did our research).

I’ve got the name of a good lawyer in town, I believe, but I’m not sure whether it’s worth fighting the insurance company on this issue. Is my position–get us a new damn car without making us pay anything additional–reasonable? Or should I Just go with what they’re saying, be out an additional $600 or whatever, and move on with life?

2

Having just purchased a “new to me” used vehicle myself a few weeks ago, there are a few things I’m curious about before giving an opinion.

First, why are you dealing with the at fault driver’s insurance company instead of your insurance company? Is that a point you omitted for brevity?

What sort of insurance did you buy for your car? When I bought mine, I wasn’t really planning on it at the time and had to finance some of it, so I am required to carry “full” or comprehensive coverage until that is paid off. That includes vehicle replacement, but never having any need to actually use it, I don’t know how it works. The only time I’ve ever seen it invoked, the adjuster actually took the person to the dealer of their choice and told them to pick out whatever they wanted (pretty favorable details for my friend leading to that)

3

Good question! It’s because my insurance company has SUCKED ASS. Short version is, they told us that we shouldn’t file a claim with them unless we were admitting fault, and they’ve been completely useless during this entire time. The best thing I can say about them is that come October they won’t be our company any more. :mad:

If we filed under our collision insurance and no other company accepted liability, our rates would go through the roof. We really don’t want that–and since the accident was clearly someone else’s fault, and since their company has taken liability, we don’t need that.

4

I think it’s pretty clear that they are supposed to provide an identical replacement without you being out of pocket. It’s just a question, as you say, of the cost effectiveness of taking action against them to enforce this - and obviously they know that, so they will try to nickel and dime you. In reality, everyone knows that separating out “dealer fees” is a sham, and that this is really part of the cost of the far.

Are you looking to replace it with an identical car? It might help to actually source the replacement and get a firm written quote on what it will cost, including all fees - ideally more than one quote. Maybe ask the dealers to make the quotes with a dealer fee of zero (obviously the car price will then reflect that). Submit the quote(s), and tell them the cheapest one is what you’ll accept in settlement, or it’s down to them to source an identical car more cheaply. You can do this without involving a lawyer, and the fact that you show some inclination to do a bit of work to document and enforce your rights may encourage them to cave.

5

ETA: I too, am bemused as to why you need to do this, rather than your own insurance company. That’s part of their job.

6

I agree with that sentiment, but there are insurance companies that don’t see it that way.

I remember when my parked car was hit by a driver who was blinded by heavy rain. When I called my insurance agent’s office to report this, the nice woman who answered the phone patiently took down all of the information about the accident, then said, “I’m afraid we can’t help you. You’re going to have to call the other driver’s insurance carrier.” I have a different insurance agent now.

7

Gah! Nothing worse than shitty insurance company that won’t do their job, especially when its your insurance company.

8

It sucks - but take the money they’re offering. If you double-dog dare them to find a cheaper car, I think they will, and you won’t like it.

I also think you can switch insurance right this mother-fucking second and they’ll owe you a refund. There is no point in having coverage that provides no coverage.

9

If I was a conspiracy-minded person, which I am not, I’d be wondering if “dealer fees” were part of some secret pact with the insurance industry.

Anyway, I agree with Sunny Daze: take the money (you’ll still be able to get a pretty nice used car for that) and switch insurance carriers.

10

For those who say just take the first offer… why do you think it’s not worth any effort at all to negotiate? Do you think there is anything to lose in doing this, other than OP’s time and effort? The most important aspect of liability is settled, so I can’t see that there’s any prospect of them withdrawing their initial offer.

11

Many years ago, I bought a used car for $18000 (private party, sale, about $4000 below KBB). It was a lease vehicle the owner only had serviced at the dealer and had records; they just wanted out of the lease and had an attractive lease buy-out option. Three years later, I was involved an accident (my fault) that totaled the vehicle. Although I paid cash, I had full-coverage insurance. As the car was now over 5 years old, they tried to settle for $6850. I told them no-way. When I dug into how they determined value, they over-estimated the age (1t was a 1999 model and they were aging it as if it was built in 1998 as many vehicles are built the previous year, but the build date was in February 1999. When I pointed this out, they relented. They also called the color “Maroon” (an 'unpopular color") when in fact, it was their flagship red, most popular color for that model that year. They relented. I also said I had dealer maintenance records on the vehicle and that I doubted any vehicle they were using for comparison had any such paper history. In the end, I got $9500, but it took me three or four weeks. Luckily, I had another vehicle to drive in the meantime.

I did change insurance coverage, have paid cash for every vehicle since, and no longer carry full coverage.

12

What on Earth does auto color have to do with insurance?

13

I just made my will save.

14

Are you going to answer the question, or are all opinions equally valid?

Last I checked, KBB isn’t divided up by color.

15

I don’t think it’s that. The dealer fee tends to be in very fine print, and if you’re not paying attention, it’d be easy to negotiate the price ignoring the dealer fee. The hope, I believe, is that by the time you realize the fee they’re tacking on, you’ll be so emotionally committed to buying the car that you’ll just cuss at them and pay it.

I didn’t mind the fee, because I knew about it, and knew the price I’d be satisfied with, and negotiated with them from that position. But as far as I’m concerned that was part of the price I paid for the car, and if the insurance company doesn’t reimburse it, I’m out that cost.

Definitely switching carriers. These mofos have been worse than useless. As I see it, it’s to their advantage to negotiate on behalf of their clients, since they have experience dealing with other insurance agencies and can do everything possible to get someone else to claim liability. If nobody else had claimed liability, our agency would’ve been on the hook for the damage to our car.

That presumes they’re competent, though. And when I sat in their office waiting to speak to our agent (spoiler: I never did get to speak to our agent), I heard the two front-desk people handle, I’m not even making this up, four different fuckups over the course of twenty minutes: people not getting their claims paid properly, accidentally canceling someone’s home loan insurance, and two other things I forget what they were.

I am so over them.

Deep breath.

Okay, so here’s what I’m thinking. As far as we can tell (NOT A LEGAL STATEMENT!) my wife escaped pretty unscathed from the accident: her initial doctor visit just said she was very sore and had tense muscles, and that a follow-up visit wouldn’t be necessary unless something new manifested. It’s been a few weeks with no new manifestations.

The insurance company wants to resolve the medical claim, like TODAY. Folks I’ve spoken with say this is because medical claims are where costs can balloon like crazy. We demurred on their offer.

So I’m thinking this might be a negotiation point. If we’re pretty confident that there will be no further medical expenses, we might say, “Listen, we were $20,000 out of pocket for the car. You’re offering us $19,000 [or whatever]. We need to be at $20,000 to make us whole, given where we were immediately before the accident, plus a couple hundred bucks in doctor’s visits. We’re ready to settle medical claims if you’ll cut us the check for $20,000.”

Is that in the ballpark for a reasonable negotiating tactic?

I hate this shit.

16

I’d be very cautious about waiving their liability for medical claims. If you do end up having major medical expenses attributable to the accident, your own medical insurer would certainly want to go after them for reimbursement. So you can’t assume that your medical insurance will cover you if you do something that prevents that reimbursement.

17

You sound confused. Auto color doesn’t “have to do with insurance” it has to do with the value of the car. Lots of new cars have premium color options that cost hundreds of dollars more than the basic color choices so of course that would be reflected in the used car value. So while KBB may not be “divided up by color” (whatever that means), they most likely take it into consideration when determining the value and just not make it explicit. Otherwise, why else would they ASK for the color during the process? Edmunds does list a “color adjustment” in the results of its valuation tool.

18

Sorry for not living at the computer. As an aside, are you trying to say my opinion isn’t valid?

My insurance told me they did not use KBB, but some other price guide, and I really don’t care if you like my opinion or not.

Regardless, it is not an opinion, but, in fact, they told me that the used price was based, in part, on the color and since they termed the color as Maroon, it was an unfavorable color and it decreased the price. When I pointed out to them that the car was not offered in Maroon and the color was the company’s flagship red color, they backed down. You might not like it, I don’t care. Most used car dealers will admit there are some colors that do not sell as well as others, so I can believe that in the used car market, the color of the car can influence price. While I doubt it affects the insurance premium, insurance companies are in the business of reducing their payouts in any way they can.

19

Yes, testing with my car on the KBB site and picking various colors with all the other information the same does yield different values. For my car, a 2014 Mazda 3, the range is only about $50-$75, but color definitely impacts value on the KBB site. I wouldn’t be surprised if the range is higher for other makes and models.

20

She’s also entitled to “pain and suffering,” which is more than zero if she’s “very sore.”

Even if she makes a complete recovery quickly, she’s entitled to compensation and they know that.

I would not waive medicals until you know. There is no rush. Get what you can for the car, and tell them you’ll have to wait and see before you resolve the bodily injury portion of the claim.