I am downright astonished at the apperent stupidity of the population of Florida for going almost entirely for Bush despite what happened only four years ago, and equally shocked at all the seemingly thoughtless redneck S.O.B.s in the entire middle of the country who did so as well. What the idiot voters who wanted another four years of that sack of shit in office think, if they actually do, should be a bloody crime.
With that said, hopefully the world can try to ignore us so lnog as we don’t invade anybody else for a could of years and we can get past this particular indiscretion against logic.
The numerous states voting in favor of the SSM ban has done just as much, if not more, to put me in a sour disposition. I’m sure I can’t say anything about it that y’all haven’t already thought of or such, so I’ll spare the rant, but it truly makes me sad that so many people feel threatened by love. It’s damned sad.
Oh, and I’m cringing at what the Supreme Court might come up with next now that they won’t be going anywhere anytime soon.
I can’t tell any difference in how I’m treated now as opposed to when Clinton was Pres. Other than being a conservative on these boards. Clinton sucks! I see members here from '99, and that was like WAY before Bush, dude! :rolleyes:
I know you weren’t pulling a Baldwin. It would be a little more valid if you stated it that way than saying you were going to leave the country, though.
I’m not sure if this technique will accomplish anything other than me getting arrested, but I’m yelling at every 2 out of 3 people I encounter, “What the fuck is wrong with you??” The third person gets a hug. Coincidentally, the third person is always attractive and female…not sure what’s up with that.
Can we please stop with the villifying of everybody who disagrees with us? It’s counterproductive.
Let me be clear about what I am not saying. I am not saying that you shouldn’t be angry, hurt, frustrated, and disappointed over the banning of same-sex marriages. I am not saying that I personally support such bans. I’m not denying that some of the people who voted to ban same-sex marriages are hateful, bigoted, homophobic, etc.
But not all of them. I can’t speak for them or know what they were all thinking (and neither can you), but I bet you a lot of them are simply afraid of change. Look, allowing two men or two women to marry one another represents a huge change in the way society is structured. Throughout human history, men have been marrying women, not other men. I, like millions of others, grew up thinking of marriage as man + woman, not out of any specific opposition to same-sex marriage but just because the very idea of it never occured to me. The idea takes a lot of getting used to.
This only shows that why democracy is such a terrible form of government. We’ve been warned from the very founding of the United States that a great danger of this form of government is the potential of tyranny by the majority.
Why, oh, why, do so many Americans not understand that civil rights for minorities are vital even if you yourself are not a member of that minority group? I’m not gay and I will never be personally affected one way or another by the legality of gay marriage. But I’ll support it regardless, because maybe one day I’ll end up on the wrong end of the minority stick and then I’ll need allies. Face it, folks, we’re all a member of some minority, whether its racial, genetic, religious, political, behavioral, or what-have-you.
No. Sorry, but being afraid of change doesn’t excuse denying equal treatment to other people. And what the fuck is there to be “afraid” of? Are these people afraid of gay couples being given visitation rights in hospitals? Are they afraid of gay people being able to write wills that leave their estates to their partners, without those wills being thrown out of court by their relatives? Are they afraid of gay people being taxed at the same rate as married straight couples? What the hell is there to be afraid of? Fear implies a threat. What the HELL is there about gay marriage that threatens anybody? If gay marriage were legal, everywhere, today, what the hell would change in these people’s live that would give the slightest fucking reason to be afraid?
I am not going to give people a pass on their irrationality, on their discrimination, just because they’re afraid. If they’re afraid, then they should either figure out why they’re afraid or they should grow the fuck up.
So far, the only change in structure we’ve had to make is crossing out “Bride” and “Groom” and changing them to “Spouse” and “Spouse” on the form the minister had us fill out in order for her to post the banns and get the marriage license.
I think the whole change in structure argument is just one of those irrational ekzajerayshuns.
Good, don’t give them a pass. Just don’t hate them, or brand them as Evil with a capital E. You might be able to win some of them over if you didn’t say “Fuck you” to them.
This was what was so great about Martin Luther King Jr. He fought hard against discrimination, while preaching love, not hatred, toward those who opposed or disagreed with his cause.
Dear residents of Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, and UT:
If you want to come up to Canada any time, you’re welcome here. We’ve got ice-cold beer, toques, chesterfields, the best hockey players in the world–and, oh, yeah. Legal gay marriage.
I don’t hate anyone in particular right now, and I certainly don’t recall saying “Fuck you” to anybody. Right now all I feel is a taint of despair. But it’s easy for me: I’m straight and married. I’m already at the front of the bus.
But I’m not going to look any gay or lesbian person in the eye today and tell them that they shouldn’t feel hate towards those who would oppress them, those who would enshrine discrimination in the law out of nothing but fear. Not today, when they’ve been kicked so god-damned hard, when they’ve been used as a boogeyman by the worst of the Republican party for political advantage, and when they’ve been told so loudly that their love is somehow not as deserving as the love of others. I simply do not have the moral authority to dictate to them what they should feel in their hearts, especially on this day.
How much, exactly, are gay people supposed to take? How much shit are they supposed to eat, and how wide are they supposed to grin while doing it? What, precisely, is the cost for them to be treated as human beings like the rest of us? WHAT PRICE DO WE EXPECT THEM TO PAY?
Goddammit, I lied. I don’t just feel despair, I feel FUCKING PISSED OFF. I guess I don’t have the moral fortitude of Dr. King. Today, my patience has not risen to the high standard he set. Perhaps another day I can try again and continue to strive to meet his example.
But in the meantime, discrimination has been written into law in nine states. So my lack is patience is probably not the biggest issue here.
Apparently it’s not counterproductive at all. Apparently, villifying and demeaning people who are different from you is the perfect way to get a bigoted amendment passed in 11 states.
No. For me, it took a lot of getting used to. A lot of getting used to the idea that no matter what other people are overwhelmingly trying to tell me, I’m not wrong just for being different than a majority of the people I know. A lot of getting used to the idea that this is the way I am, and this is how my life is going to be. And a lot of work realizing that I don’t need to be ashamed anymore, and I can still have the life I always wanted.
For you, all it takes is a vote and you can go on with your life exactly the way it always has been. All it takes is for you to see two men or two women who are in love and say, “Hmm, homosexuals. They look happy. Good for them” and then go about your business as normal. All it takes is for you to get used to the idea of equality, and right versus wrong.
I just don’t understand how long it’s going to take for people to realize what a big deal this is. Saying that a vote against same-sex marriage is not a vote against me personally – that’s just self-serving nonsense. That vote says nothing more than that homosexuals are not entitled to the exact same thing everyone else has. It’s demoralizing, it’s dehumanizing, it’s reinforcing the notion that homosexuals are deviants and that homosexuality is not condoned in this country.
If we’re not entitled to marriage, how long until society thinks it’s okay to start denying us our other basic rights? Fair employment? Voting? Just basic safety from hate crimes? Why is gobear being “overdramatic” or “emotional” when he predicts a death penalty for homosexuals? If we don’t deserve marriage, why do we deserve anything else? There are already sodomy laws on the books – why not just throw us all in prison? Again, how long until you people realize how serious this is?
You bet your ass I’m going to take this personally. And I’m going to call out everybody who voted for a ban and tell them that they’ve taken it upon themselves to try and run my life.
I think a lot of people are afraid that if gays have equal rights, that makes them equal. Equality leads to the thought that maybe they’re “like me”. Homophobia runs DEEP, and the idea that someone might think, even for a second, that they are “like a gay” the fear takes over. Don’t you remember sixth grade?
And this, of course, is just one of the many reasons why we don’t give sixth-graders the vote. That grown adults can’t get over this kind of bullshit is just another sad aspect of this whole sorry mess.
I know it’s not much consolation, but even though the majority of Ohio doesn’t want to see you get married or even receive any type of legal status :mad:, Cincinnatians repealed Article XII. Now, City Council can pass laws protecting gays from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. I hope they do. I see this as a first step. It’s got to start in the urban areas and make its way out to the rest of the country. If conservative Cincinnati can do it, other cities will follow. People have learned from their mistake in 1993. I will be watching City Council very closely and expect them to follow through on this. 61% of their constituents have spoken. Go Cincy! (Strange, I never thought I’d say that!) Boo, Ohio! :mad:
What I have a hard time with is the people that live in: Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, and Utah, are actually SUPRISED that the bans passed. Every state listed, with the exception of Michigan, went to Bush, this equals a large conservative base, which means no gay marriage. While it’s disappointing, it’s hardly a suprise. What’s more, proponents of gay marriage are doing EXACTLY what their detractors are doing; demonizing people for their beliefs and way of life, which creates SERIOUS credibility problems, IMO.
Could it be that people actually don’t believe in something, and that they formed that belief on their values and morals?
Avabeth just said
And somehow says it from a position of superiority, as if the woman who originally made the statement should change HER morals and HER values to suit Avabeth’s position, not knowing from where her morals and values originate. That’s just daft.
It’s so hypocritical I can barely stand it.
What I don’t get, and maybe someone can help me out on this, is why the importance on the word ‘marriage’? If, as a Gay couple, you were able to be afforded the same protections as Straight couples married in the traditional way, but just couldn’t call it ‘marriage’ would that be enough?
Marriage is a religious ceremony, the legal contract is secular, so why not refocus the initiative on civil unions, with the full protection of marriage, and not use the word that has these folks offput? Repackage and reinvent the idea to make it more palatable. Stop calling it marriage, and call it, hell, call it surfing, it doesn;t matter, just be smarter about it (unless the groups in favor already do, then ignore that last bit)
Still and all, the issue must not be as important as we’d been led to believe…
Frankly, if this was so important an issue, there would be more widespread support, I would think. We live in a representative republic, what you’re seeing is the collateral damage of that fact.
If the ban question ever comes to Illinois, I will stand strongly against it, my values hold that I could give less than a shit about who marries who, ain’t none of my business, but I will say that if you want to make it go down easier, make the medicine a little sweeter.
This is moral-relativist twaddle. When A’s"way of life" is to simply mind his own business and B’s “way of life” is to forcibly prevent A from doing so, B is in the wrong.
By your reasoning, when a homeowner shoots an armed burglar, he has a “credibility problem” because the homeowner is “doing EXACTLY” what the burglar is doing (engaging in armed combat).
Je peux parler français, mais je ne suis pas fluent.
I don’t plan to move to Canada. It’s too cold. And I like not having to change citizenship. I really need to visit there, one summer. Maybe a research program or something.
