Spiritus Mundi, I’m not trying to butt into your argument with Nymaz, but I think you are being a total jerk. Perhaps you don’t understand what he is saying, but I certainly do, and I hope I’m not the only one. If I had a friend who was starving and I honestly did not have the money to help him or her out, I wouldn’t help him or her steal, but I would be empathetic to the reasoning behind his or her theft. I don’t think Nymaz was at all celebrating his help or congratulating himself; he was simply pointing using an anecdote to support his argument that customer profiling does not work.
I think you are overstating your case here. You don’t have to approve of what he did, and you can go right ahead and claim that in your opinion, he is amoral or immoral, but what purpose does that serve? He did it, it was in the past, and you have no cause to sit in judgement of him. This is not a Great Debate, and your opinion of his morality has nothing to do with this thread or with him, for that matter.
Personally, I think you are being a self-righteous prick, and I wish you would stop. Again, your subjective opinion of his morality has nothing to do with him, and proclaiming your pointless opinion so arrogantly comes across as overbearing, self-aggrandizing, and condescending.
Nymaz, welcome to the Board and please don’t think Spiritus Mundi’s opinion reflects us all.
So many people in this thread have stated the opinion “Store having trouble with theft? Not my problem. Don’t bother me with it”. Whatever the situation Nymez’s friend was in, it wasn’t the store’s problem or fault, and she had no right to steal from them.
People say that the authorities won’t help. Bullshit. I had two friends in high school put under protection after they alledged that they had been abused at home. Both were fed, housed and given an allowance by the Government. Both recieved assistance in getting through school. Both were provided with councelling. Here’s the kicker - only one was being abused. The other felt guilty once she got out of her teens, and admitted she’d concocted the story to get back at her parents for some trivial thing. The reason this didn’t come out until then was because the agencies involved took the child’s word and got them out before more harm could be done, instead of trying to verify their story before acting on it.
As a teen, I moved out of home young and lived with my dropkick friends. The very first week we were on our own, they (much to my disgust) went to a local charity and said we were broke and couldn’t afford food. They came home with a big box full of stuff donated to them. I’m not condoning what they did, because it was wrong and I was furious with them, but my point is that there was help there and all they needed to do was ask for it. Meat, milk and staples all given free of charge.
Three children (aged a couple of years either side of 12) who were friends-of-a-friend lost their mother to a suicide last year. This left them alone in the world with their abusive no-good father. The children didn’t want to live with him, they hadn’t in years since their mother kicked him out, so they were taken in by their friend’s parents. Each child found a home with a school friend’s family. Knowing what their father was like, those people didn’t want to see the children stuck with him and they didn’t want them to go to a state run facility, so they took them in to their own homes. The kids were swamped with offers of places to live, as well as support from so many in the community that they got to pick and choose who where they’d like to go. When a child is suffering (or going to suffer) that much, people rally around to help.
I don’t know what Nymez’s friend’s situation was, but it doesn’t justify stealing. Would he have helped her break into people’s houses? Would he have helped her snatch purses? Theft is theft, and just because you’re stealing from a store doesn’t mean it’s a victimless crime. People like Nymez and his friend are what’s wrong with the world. Instead of trying to help themselves, they blame everyone else and help themselves to whatever they want. Nymez’s story wasn’t initially about the rotten life of his friend - it was about the “unjust” attitudes of store detectives who pegged him for what he was - a guy there to steal. Considering he’s told us he was there to distract them while his accomplice stole, I’m not surprised they followed him - what kind of decoy would he be if he didn’t act suspicious? I don’t think the story is relevant because he wasn’t innocently shopping in the store and being singled out for the way he looked. He was there to assist theft, and he did this by enticing the security away from his little friend - who, despite being homeless and reduced to stealing to live, was apparently clean cut and well dressed enough to walk around the store without anyone suspecting she didn’t have money.
If Nymez’s friend’s home life was so terrible, she should have been able to get the police involved, or a child welfare agency, or a teacher or someone from her church. She would have recieved assistance from organizations that are set up to help people like her, or from friends and their families. Nymez could have told his family about her situation and asked for their help - I can’t imagine a parent who wouldn’t help feed a girl who was abused and desperate. There are so many options before you reach the level of stealing to survive that I have no sympathy for the girl. If you ask for help, you’re likely to get it. If you steal from people, you’re a common little thief not deserving of compassion.
If it wasn’t for people like Nymez and his friend, Stoid wouldn’t have had any cause to start this thread. The consequences of their actions, and of all the people like them, have lead to people on the doors checking bags.
As would I. Nymaz would help her steal, and years later he would recall the episode proudly. Can you see the difference?
I don’t think Nacho4Sara was at all reading carefully when forming her opinion. :eek:
What purpose does any communication serve? Why are you posting your opinion of my posts? Why have you felt it necessary to interject your views into this discussion? How about this: I had something to say.
I don’t like assholes. I especially don’t like remorseless assholes who brag about petty criminal endeavors. I find it personally satisfying to tell such people in clear and unambiguous terms that I find their behavior disgusting. And, most importantly, I find that sitting quietly while moral bankruptcy is passed of as acceptable behavior lowers me to the level of Nymaz. Those are the purposes that my initial post served.
Additoinal posts were responses to additional details, poor loginc, personal invective, etc. They also served to blow off steam. Hey, we are in the PIT.
Please read more carefully. I am not calling him a criminal for his behavior in the past. I am calling him morally atrophied for his attitudes in the present. I thought I was excruciatingly clear on that in my last post. Did you skip that section?
Beyond that, I have not only cause but obligation to judge the behavior of every person I encounter. Tell me, how do you reconcile this admonition to “not judge” with the content of your post? Which represents your true feeling, and which is the hypocrisy?
Of course not. It’s the PIT. My comments would have been horribly out of line in GD. Lucky for me punk-boy chose to publicize his character in the one forum where I could respond directly and candidly.
I disagree. If stoid would prefer we move it elsewhere, however, I would certainly comply with her request. As to “with him”, I suppose that is really for him to judge. I never asked him to respond to my comment or to rationalize his attitudes. That he has chosen to do so indicates that he does not agree with your assessment.
Ooooh. 100% Recomended Daily Allowance of iron.
Personally I think you are being a hypocritical fool, but I don’t care at all whether you stop or continue. Tell me, though, which of these most accurately characterizes the comment above?
[li]not trying to butt into your argument[/li][li]You don’t have to approve of what he did . . . but what purpose does that serve?[/li][li]your opinion of his morality has nothing to do with this thread or with him[/li][li]you have no cause to sit in judgement of him.[/li][li]proclaiming your pointless opinion so arrogantly comes across as overbearing, self-aggrandizing, and condescending.[/li][li]being a self-righteous prick[/li]:rolleyes:
And finally
Then I suggest you email a moderator. If they agree with your opinion I am certain they will take appropriate action.
But Nymaz did help her steal. For over a year. And claims pride in it. Seems happy about it actually.
Did this person ask his/her parents for help with this poor starving teen? Seek help from charities, like churches? Seek help from the county? From the city or state? What steps did this runaway teen take to improve her station, other than petty theft?? Were they stealing food at Best Buy? Or other items that were to be fenced?
And why would we take the word of an unrepentant thief? That’s the kicker. If the fool had used the example without pride in it, but instead, remorse, I wouldn’t have batted an eye.
I guess I missed it. What exactly did Nymaz help the girl steal over the course of a year? I see where he says “tons of stuff” but I don’t see what the stuff is.
I have been working with the homeless for years. There are many resources for those who are willing to seek them out. To say that a person must resort to theft in order to survive is pure and total bullshit and just an excuse to be a thief.
A teen on the street who is afraid of being sent back home to an abusive parent is not going to go to the government for help. Most organizations, even private ones, will report a runaway, and are required to by law in many places.
dingdingding We have a winner! Okay, I’m sure cazzle and Diane et al understood that, too, but spooje put it so succinctly I had to say something:
self-righteous prick.
As far as I’m aware in America the POLICE can only search you or your belongings if there is probable cause or they precieve a direct threat to their safety.
Now let us examine the idiot at the CompUSA door.
He is either a) a rent a cop or b) some store employee with 15 min of training and a high school diploma.
Either case I don’t see where they have any legal ability to search your possessions.
flashback
I leave a CompUSA after buying a new video card and sound card (total purchases around 400). Keep in mind at the store I went to high price items are behind counters and an employee must get them for you. Ok so I’m carrying the boxes and go pay for them.
I then walk from the cashier to the exit all of 5 bloody feet.
Security guard askes to see my reciept and look in my bag.
“No, get out of my way.”
“Sir, I can’t let you out of the store without doing that.”
“So, you’re prohibiting me from leaving?”
(Guard looks a little unsure) “Yes.”
“So you’re kidnapping me?”
“Excuse me?”
“I’m leaving now.” I step around the guard as he’s stopped in confusion. God I love uneducated people. Unfortunatly the store manager by now has decided to step in and stops me.
“Sir, we have to search your bag before you leave. Please cooperate before we must take more extreme measures.”
“So, not only do you want to conduct an illegal search of my belongings you always want to detain me against my will until such time you can force me into agreeing to said search.”
“Umm, its store policy.” (Hehe, idiot. Answering that store policy gives them more power than the police department. If he said that they were legally entitled this wouldn’t have worked.)
“I need to make a phone call.” (I take my cell phone and speed dial my answering machine, it is actually the most usefull number I have programed into my phone.) Now here I into a true academy award deserving piece of acting. Basically I pretent I’m calling my lawyer, whom I interrupt in a meeting, and begin discussing about the various criminal violations and civil suit possiblities based off this.
Then I look into my bag and dial the number for the company who made the video card and talk to them. I compain to their legal and advertising departments about negative consumer reaction to being treated in such a manner by an autorized vender of their products. I give them the store and manager’s names (gotta love name tags).
Then I dial my answering machine again.
“Umm yes, my name is < > and I’m currently at (store name and address). I think I’m being kidnapped, I don’t know if they are armed or not. They are being quite threatening though.”
Strangely enough, by this time they let me leave without searching me.
There is a moral to this story. The only shit you take from other people is the shit you let them give you. My friend wanted to do something even worse, and that was place the guard and the manager under citizens arrest for attempted kidnapping. But that would have actually ended up with police being called and it was more entertaining for me to do it my way.
Yes and no… Nymez may be a jerk for bragging about being a shoplifter, but to me the bigger issue is that he came in here bragging, attempting to show off, then realised he was playing to the wrong crowd, and changed his story to try to paint himself as a knight in shining armor - yet still managed to prove he doesn’t get it. Her abusive family doesn’t mean that the local shops owe her anything, and stealing from them was wrong. I’m waiting for him to reappear and assert that they did it because they don’t like taking charity.
And bgdr, if you are in that much trouble at home there are things that can be done. I told you about the friends of mine that reported their fathers were abusing them and were removed from their homes immediately. No one ever attempted to investigate if they were telling the truth or lying, they were taken at their word and given shelter, money, food, supervision and assistance, and encouraged to stay in school. Nothing justifies taking what isn’t yours. I find it hard to believe that she was so miserable that she chose to live on the streets and steal to stay alive, yet she wasn’t miserable enough to tell the authorities who would have helped her out. She was clean-cut enough to wonder around stores unaccosted by security (girl next door), yet she was unable to get a job - apparently she couldn’t use Nymez’s address on a form to make it look like she had a place to live? Instead of actually helping her, Nymez went the dishonest, short term solution route of generously bestowing upon her “tons” of stuff that belonged to other people, and he comes in here all self righteous because store dectives pegged him for the thief he was. What a hero.
Funny, most stores have a sign that says presenting your bags to be inspected upon exit is a condition of entry. Seems to me that if you’re not prepared to honour that, you shouldn’t be entering what is, after all, private property.
If you couldn’t tell from my post I have almost no clue of legal matters.
A) CompUSA at least in 3 states I’ve been to DOES NOT post any such notice.
B) If I don’t decide to follow their statement about allowing them to inspect my bags they have every right to throw me out. I don’t deny them that. However, by the time it comes that I’ve already made a purchase and hence already entered. By making a purchase what is in my bad MY LEGAL PROPERTY and the only thing they can do about that is say, “oh.” They can throw me out, but taking MY legal property is theft and I can send their asses in jail.
Its a catch-22. They can deny me services if I do not wish to abide by their rules. They can keep me from entering their store if they know before hand I’m buying something (which would be cool to know) and they know I’m not going to let them search my bags. But by the time they know this, I’m already the legal owner of the merchandise. What can they do now? My guess is that about all they can do is kick me out (which I want to get out anyway) or insert that little pink high lighter up their ass to that painful blockage wich probably caused them to be so anal about searching my bags in the first place.
I also thought that an illegal search is an illegal search and no amount of ‘conditions of entry’ will change that.
Imagine a police station with a sign that says “Condition of entry: All properity owned by, or which you have access to may be searched at any time following entry.”
Basicly : A) they can’t force me to let them search my bags.
B) They don’t know this until I attempt to leave the store.
C) I don’t think their ‘conditions of entry’ suddenly makes their search legal.
D) If it was legal, I’d comply.
E) Every thing in the store but loose floppy disks have magnetic ‘theft detection devices’ in them.
F) All of the entrances and exits have magnetic detection systems.
G) They have security cameras watching us at all times
H) They require a name, phonenumber, address before they will sell to you.
E-F ; => Eliminates vast majority of thefts
G-H ; => If I did add something extra to my bag (by turning around and walking past the cashier and past the line of customers and past the employees standing around behind the lines) they would have camera images of me, a reccord of what I took and a reccord of who I am and where I live.
A-D ; => They’re just jerking me around. Thats cool, I don’t care. Just remember I a hell of a lot more vicious than they are.
Fuck me once, shame on you.
Fuck me twice, I fuck back.
Fuck me three times, dunno never made it past two.
Sorry, I get very tired of taking shit from people periodically. I know their job is crap, I’ve done worse. (Hollywood video… night shifts)
But damnit, I just bought a large sum of overpriced crap from them that has an obscene markup and now they accuse me of stealing? I wouldn’t mind if they did it AFTER i set the alarm off.
Sorry, I get very tired of taking shit from people periodically. I know their job is crap, I’ve done worse. (Hollywood video… night shifts)
But damnit, I just bought a large sum of overpriced crap from them that has an obscene markup and now they accuse me of stealing? I wouldn’t mind if they did it AFTER i set the alarm off.
I also think that your quote is the most accurate summation of anything that I have ever posted on a message board.
