I have questioned whether or not God exists. I simply didn’t know, and so I looked for answers everywhere.
But now I no longer care. Whether he exists or not, I don’t want to worship him. Not anymore.
“… hope you got my letter and I pray you can make it better down here…”
- XTC, Dear God
Esprix
You know, people, if this is what helps us cope, back the fuck off, okay?
Right now is a very trying time, and mocking people for dealing with it in their own way is simply petty.
There are other ways to cope. Retreating into fantasy is a poor way of coping.
Then jab1 and Libertarian? Exercise your Officially Sanctioned Coping™ mechanisms in another thread, mkay?
I for one still want a do-over.
Dear Whatever,
If you’re going to be doing a do-over, could you maybe start with the 14[sup]th[/sup] century, the Black Plague? No, huh?
Okay, how about The Crusades: any chance of showing people the error of their ways? Unh-unh, huh?
Hmmm, WWI? Nope. WWII? Not that either, eh? I’m sure both the Americans *and * the Vietnamese would like to have all their dead back from the Vietnam Police Action, any chance you could…not that either, huh?
Well, it’s not like I’ve asked you for anything before so I didn’t really expect much. I guess I’m still drawing breath and able to make decisions, though, as member of the Marine Corps Inactive Reserve, there is a very real chance that I will have that condition changed for me.
I’m not too worried, though, I’m having a (relatively) good life and the people I care about know it. I don’t knwo what tomorrow will bring, whether I’ll be getting a call and packing my bags or if I’ll just spend another day sitting at work, bored but occupied. I’m lucky, nobody I know was directly harmed by what happened last week, but then again, no one I know was in a car crash or a hold-up or a sudden allergy to shellfish, so I’ll keep living each day content that those I know are doing the same.
I don’t need a re-do, I just want to make sure someone is still saying “Game on!”
Another day, another friend, another number of events that shape me and them, another blowing wind that never will. One more moment I can spend knowing that I’ve loved and been loved…you do what you’ve got to, I’m good.
[ul]-Eric[/ul]
Nonsense.
Absent any will of your own, matters like bearableness would have no meaning to you. It would be like aboveness to a Flatlander.
PepperlandGirl
Certainly, as you wish. Your ability to decide this for yourself is His gift to you.
Just curious, though. Why this singular event? I mean, before this neither the Kurd Massacre, nor the Holocaust, nor the War of Northern Aggression, nor the Crusades — none of these merited the decision. For those, did you blame the PEOPLE who did them?
I think the answer to that lies in the proximity. Once pain and terror strike close to home, perhaps affecting those you know or care about, you become much more aware of the events than by reading about something that happened in some foreign land or something that happened hundreds of years, or even a number of decades, ago.
You might have noticed the post directly above yours, but in case you didn’t, I’ll summarize: I’d rather see a re-do for one of the larger, much more horrific loses than for last Tuesday. Callous though it may seem, 5,000 is a small number of dead when compared to any of the major battles we’ve fought in. Granted, those were battles involving servicemen (and women) who knew that they were in peril, but the loss of life remains. Go to Arlington sometime and tell me you wouldn’t rather see that place as nothing but some rolling hills, unblemished by the markers of loss, perhaps even covered by office buildings. I’d rather see that, personally.
The people that are echoing Nymys sentiment are focusing on the events of last week because it is close, it is fresh and it affects the way they live. I’m sure that many people that were around during the Plague, either of the Great World Wars, during the Kurdish slaughter or the Holocaust were saying the exact same thing as what has been posted here.
Lib, I have no quarrel with you, but please do not infect this thread with posturing of any kind. You opinion is fine and dandy, as are your beliefs. Let these people have theirs and let them express their grief. It’s their free will, after all.
Lib it wasn’t just this one event. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back. thinksnow is right, the proximity had a lot to do with it. But it wasn’t this event alone.
I think that if there is a God, he’s turned his back on the whole world. No point in worshipping him either way though.
Um, jab? Just curious why you think it’s your calling to oversee in what manner people chose to cope.
If it works for them, why do you have a problem with it?
ThinkSnow
Please let me assure you that I don’t mind what anyone believes or doesn’t. As I said, I was just curious. Intellectually, not emotionally. I begrudge no one their belief or lack of it. It’s none of my business. We each have our own moral journey.
As I’ve said before, a person can be happy with or without God. A person is always happy so long as he has made a free choice. God does not use grief as a punishment. He is not the source of happiness, but the source of goodness. Some people are made happy by goodness, whereas some are made happy by evil. God lets you choose either, and be happy with your choice.
I rather imagine that most people consider what happened at WTC to be evil. And I would certainly agree, at least, that it is a manifestation of evil. (Evil is not in a deed, but in the heart that carries out the deed.) The only part I don’t understand, and the reason I capitalized and bolded the word “people” is why God is being blamed for the free and willing decision of Osama bin Laden.
It seems to me that a person might reasonably blame God for free-will in general, and thereby assign to Him the blame for all evil, although I would argue that, inasmuch as we ourselves are incarnations of God, we only wind up once again pointing all the way around the universe and to our own backs.
PepperlandGirl
I respect your decision, and will not query you further, so as not to compound your unhappiness. Perhaps some other time…
Suffice it to say that, at this time, your decision merely reflects what a beautiful heart you have, because goodness makes you happy and evil makes you miserable. God knows which witch is which and the longings of your heart.
Go to this thread in GD, which asks what skeptics have to gain by convincing people that religion has no basis in fact.
I read most of that thread (yes, I just skimmed some of it, so please point out any relevant pieces I may be overlooking) and I’m not sure you’re addressing my question.
2 things here –
I think you’re graying these two separate issues here, jab. One of which is this: There are a lot of crackpots who will tell you that they can perform all kinds of supernatural feats and accomplishments like fireballs and bending spoons and levitation and predicting the future and all that jazz. I agree with you that these people should be held to their statements and should cough up any evidence they have to support their claims. And that they can be dangerous when acting as “spiritual guides” for people who may believe them to have great powers.
OTOH, people who have a belief in god (whatever form) and use religion (whichever one) to as a guide to lead peaceful, good lives – Why is that your concern? If they are making no false claims and all they are saying is that this is how they choose to reach some peace and cope with things, you still seem to have a problem with that.
Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion, but it’s my opinion that you are overreacting to people who may take some solace and peace from religion – If they aren’t misleading anyone, what is it to you?
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At the request of the OP, this thread is being closed. Any who wish to continue the discussion may start a new thread.
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