Dear Hollywood: We're bored

According to this Variety article, the moguls in Tinseltown are puzzling, once again, over why people seem less than enthusiastic about trekking down to the local megagoogleplex and sitting through the most recent formulaic schlock they’ve seen fit to grace us with.

Of course, one thing they’ve neglected to do in their quest for answers (and box office profits) is ask the viewing public what it is that they want. Now, I can only speak for myself, but the only thing that will get me out of my house to watch a movie, as opposed to eventually renting the DVD, is originality.

Taking a quick cruise through some box office hits, we do find some derivative schlock there… Star Wars the Phantom Menace, for instance. Independence Day. How the Grinch Marketed Christmas. Bad movies, IMHO, with bad plots, but not too bad in terms of marketing, or exploiting franchise opportunities, or sheer timing. So, sometimes the formula plots and stock characters actually work, but at a cost of a fantastic budjet for marketing and promotional tie-ins.

But on the other hand, in this same blockbuster list (found at the IMDB,, natch), we see… The Sixth Sense. Forrest Gump. E.T. the Extra Terrestrial. Raiders of the Lost Ark. Jaws. Ghostbusters. The Blair Witch Project. The Matrix.

Now, I’m not saying that all of these are good movies. Instead, they were movies that, for their time, were original. Raiders brought pulp fiction back from the dead, and the box office has been living off it since. The Sixth Sense brought the dead back from the dead, and creeped out millions; it proved that American audiences could appreciate a slow-paced film. Blair Witch, for all its faults, sums up my argument; people want to see experiments. The movie-going audience wants original, interesting movies, that we haven’t seen a thousand times before.

The lamentations of the executives behind such dreck as Lara Croft Tomb Raider, Pearl Harbor, and The Fast and the Furious ring out across the entertainment landscape, and the public turns a deaf ear to them, and stays home to watch Titanic on video yet again. “Why,” ask the executives, “why aren’t they going to see these recycled plots, tired effects, rehashed action sequences, and uninteresting stars?” We’ve seen it. If we’re going to shell out eight bucks, we want something new.

The special effects available to us have finally reached the point where anything, absolutely anything, can be put on film. Why rehash the same old plots, when the universe and all its possibilities have been opened up to you? It’s like having a genie appear, and grant you a wish, and you wish for a ham sandwich.

I know for a fact that there are millions of screenplays out there, ready to be made. They range from poor to execrable, mostly, but a few stand out. Take some risks on the ones with ideas, for once; find a promising screenplay, and don’t run it through the Hollywood Formula Machine, just maybe polish it a bit, and run with it. Trust your writers, for once, over your executives. Take the budjet that you’re thinking of putting into Lousy Remake Part 3 and give it to a promising director with an actual vision, before he’s forced to make eighteen awful films and has to develop the patented Hollywood Jaded Exterior.

You’re in the business of dreams, but you’re letting business rule you; the dreams that Hollywood turns out are, mostly, the dreams of middle management. We want the dreams of heroes, and visionaries, and madmen. They don’t fit into your formulas and actuarial tables; they can’t guarantee you a profit. But neither can your formulaic attempts at banality, as you should already know. There is no reason not to risk it.

Amen!

I feel like such an old crank saying this, but, “For god’s sakes, edit these things so they’re shorter!”

My free time is precious enough as it is. I’m willing to give up 2 hours to watch a movie. I am not willing to give up three. Not these days. When I hear a movie is over 2 1/2 hours long, my interest in seeing it plummets.

This used to not bug me. I gladly watched 4 hours of Gettysburg in the theater. Then again, it used to be there weren’t so MANY long movies.

Also, ticket prices irritate me. Although I’m not sure how much Hollywood has to say about that.

I blame the length of many movies now on Titanic. A friend summarized it very well after his wife dragged him to see it (an act which she regretted herself): “You don’t have to be good to be long.”

But it did really really well. And those shadowy executives said, “Ah HA! The moviegoing public wants LONG films! You, director! Give us a cut of your film at least 2 and a half hours!”

“Er…but it’s just a straightforward action flick, it’s really fine at 90 minutes…”

“No! Add another hour! Look at these Titanic figures!” the shadowy executives shriek, while shaking huge burlap sacks with giant $ signs on them, stuffed full of hundred dollar bills. “The public wants length!”

I went to see “Final Fantasy” recently, and my favorite memory of the previews, all but one of which looked amazingly uninteresting, was when a young boy a few rows back said loudly to his parents, “Oh, we have to see that.” I was amazed so much sarcasm could fit into someone who was probably 11 at most. It gave me hope for the future.

I’ll second on the ticket price thing. I wanted to take the tribe (we are four) to see “Shrek”, which is allegedly a decent film, a few weeks back. At the matinee price in our current locale, the cost would have been $22.00 just to go inside. During primetime this bumps to about $34.00 (I am fuzzy on the normal cost for minor offspring) Now, I normally love to go see movies, but at this price I can just wait and buy the DVD, and watch it again and again, or pitch it if its a stinker. And at these prices I wouldn’t even dream of seeing something with a II or III behind it.

Part of this pricing has to come from paying the stars in the multi-millions just for openers. But I don’t understand how they can justify level pricing for these star vehicles and films from indies/unknowns. I would propose a tiered pricing system where the pricing, for experimental films or unknown talents could be at a lower level, and for the “Titanics” of the world, it could be extravaganza pricing. (Of course this would probably be the death knell for big, box office movies… maybe I’m onto something)

In Bangkok, from whence we recently relocated, movies cost from just under $2 up to almost $4. But the $4 seats are premium, usually recliners or loveseats, sometimes even a “special” VIP theater. And the theaters and restrooms are always clean.

In my “hometown” in Florida, the theaters generally charge only in the $6 range because they need to lure the thrifty older folks out. So there is not a clear set national price.

In Frankfurt, Germany the tickets prices were between $4-6 for first run, if somewhat delayed, non-German films.
[/RantOff]

Oh, yeah, and the quality and originality thing, too…,

The other day Roger Ebert said that in the panic caused by the possible actors’ strike, some genuinely good, original films may have been accidentally greenlighted, because there wasn’t time to send them through the hierarchy of producers.

So there’s hope for this fall, and maybe Christmas/Oscar season! :smiley:

You people are knocking what just might be the best twelve months of film releases in a decade!

Am I talking about Final Fantasy? Hell, no. Indie, foreign, and B- films had a bumper crop last fall and this spring. I cite only three examples, but they are all very good films which had at least modest success in the box office and are currently cleaning house in video stores. They have good stories, good acting, and good directing, something noticeably absent from the Summer Slop we’re being served up right now.

Shadow of the Vampire: Black comedy with enough good (and bad) acting to keep most snobs in the game til the end. Pays a valuable (if fantastic) homage to one of the great films of all time, which of course nobody wants to watch anymore because it is silent and in black and white. Their loss.

Way of the Gun: When you thought the well had run dry roughly half way through From Dusk 'Til Dawn, the director of The Usual Suspects slides this wonderful amorality tale across the bar. Technically excellent in gunplay sound and handling for us bulletheads, too.

Snatch: Without a shot longer than ten seconds, it’s mighty tempting for the studio maggots to shave away what was originally a fairly tight and twisty plot. Unfortunately, they also shaved off a lot of the paying audience. That is why DVDs are the director’s godsend. This is a film that is better outside of the theater, and should serve as a lesson to the maggots: hands off good films!

Memento: Mark my words, youngsters. When you’re reading the AFI’s top 200 on Christmas Eve 2099, Memento will be high in the top half of the list. If you missed this one in the theaters, you missed out big time. Easily one of the best films ever made, and it was made on the cheap.

So those are my three examples. Stop counting, and start reading Cervaise’s web page. That dude knows what he’s talking about.

I decided about half a year ago that I will no longer go to any movie I consider to be crappy. It’s pissed off many a friend.
I’m not telling them they can’t go. I’m not telling them that they must rearrange their plans to suit me. I’ve told them that if they choose a movie that’s crap, they can go without me.

Their basic argument against me: what are you going to do? Spend that time on the internet?
Yes! Yes I will! I will definitely enjoy mindlessly clicking links for hours on end in comparison to mindlessly sitting in a theatre watching formulaic crap. And I’ll be $5 richer because of it.
Besides, it’s not like I’m with my friends when I go to the movies. We get 10 minutes of quality time together and don’t even bother discussing what little there is to discuss of most movies.

Where do I begin.

Let us start with the running time arguement.

Yes it is true that running times are a little longer today than about 10 to 15 years ago this is a good thing. (I thing the longer running time trend goes back to Dances with Wolves) Most movies suck because you don’t give a damn about the characters. Why don’t you care about the characters? Becaue what they do dosen’t make sense. Why don’t they make sense? Because the characters are developed and to do that you need screen time. Why do you think directors cuts are always longer than the theatrical cut?

Now for the stepped pricing scheme. This won’t work at all for several reasons.

Let us imagine that a film would open at full price and then if the audience wasn’t there or after a few weeks in to the run you may lower the price. Well the audience would quickly stop coming to the opening weeks and wait till the price drops a buck or two. Then you have producers and stars who would fight to have their movies stay at the full price for the sake of their egos. Now as for having the small indy films not at full price and hollywood fare at full price in the same theatre that wouldn’t work either. Probably theatres would charge full price and then tell the indy film people that they charge reduced price and keep the money. (Like indy films get the money from the circuits anyway)

Right now America is overscreened. Last quarter more screens closed than opened which is a change. Any film could go out and get 1000 or 2000 screens pretty easily if they could make the prints. (imagin you own a multiplex, you try filling up 25 to 30 screens 52 weeks of the year, it aint easy)

yes it is true that hollywood water downs it stuff but they are also opening the movies around the world now and they are making money. If they wern’t making money they would change.

Here’s more input for the moguls in Tinseltown, in case they’re interested:

Does the sound have to be so goddamned LOUD? In today’s movies, nobody does anything quietly. Doors are slammed so loud that it makes my eardrums pop out of my head just like in a Tex Avery cartoon. And don’t get me started on the deafening moaning and groaning in the sex scenes. If I heard that coming from the condo next door, I’d be pounding on the wall with an ottoman.

Adding insult to the injury of paying $9 to see a movie, we’re shown a whole string of commercials. Hello? I’m not paying money to watch ads! Let me know when the commercial interests want to pay ME to watch their ads, and maybe I’ll consider it.

Must every movie be edited to death? With the exception of “Cast Away,” I can’t remember seeing any camera shot in a recent movie last longer than 3 seconds. I can remember scenes in old movies that would go on for minutes without any editing, and gee, viewers were actually able to follow the storyline without losing patience! Maybe it had to do with hiring real actors and paying for real screenplays.

And although (maybe) Hollywood can’t control this aspect, I can’t stand walking around in a modern movie theater. The floors are half an inch deep in soda, gum and popcorn and the place reeks of rancid popcorn grease. It makes me want to hurl before the main feature even starts.

Phew! Now I feel better. Thanks for starting this thread, MrVisible.

This thread resparked a question I’ve had for a while. And since this thread sparked it again, this thread gets to see the results as I answer it:

Have quality movies gotten longer recently?

Examination method. For the first wave of analysis, I will track the run time of the Best Picture winner each year since 1930. Below are the average lengths for the winners in each decade. If I feel like it, I will increase the sample size later by including all nominations for best picture, best director, and best screenplay (which I would say tend to address the movie and structure as a whole where acting awards may not). The altnerate question of course is, have crappy movie become longer (and my anecdotal evidence is no, it seems that many teen comedies barely crack 85 minutes any more).

The sample size is way too small, but it indicates that the last decade may have seen much longer movies than the previous two (the decades in which most of us have been planting our butts in theater seats). Nothing compares to the musical happy fifties, though.


Years       Average   Films
1930-1939   127 min.  All Quiet on the Western Front (131), Cimarron (131),
                      Grand Hotel (112), Calvacade (110),
                      It Happened One Night (105),
                      Mutiny on the Bounty (132),
                      The Great Ziegfield (176),
                      The Life of Emile Zola (116),
                      You Can't Take It With You (126)
1940-1949   140 min.  Gone With the Wind (234), Rebecca (130),
                      How Green Was My Valley (118), Mrs. Miniver (134),
                      Casablanca (102), Going My Way (130),
                      The Lost Weekend (101),
                      The Best Years of Our Lives (172),
                      Gentleman's Agreement (118), Hamlet (155)
1950-1959   128 min.  All the King's Men (109), All About Eve (138),
                      An American in Paris (113),
                      The Greatest Show On Earth (152),
                      From Here to Eternity (118),
                      On the Waterfront (108), Marty (91),
                      Around the World in Eighty Days (175),
                      The Bridge Over the River Kwai (161), Gigi (119)
1960-1969   156 min.  Ben-Hur (212), The Apartment (125),
                      West Side Story (151),
                      Lawrence of Arabia (222), Tom Jones (121),
                      My Fair Lady (170), The Sound of Music (174),
                      A Man for All Seasons (120),
                      In the Heat of the Night (109), Oliver! (153)
1970-1979   142 min.  Midnight Cowboy (113), Patton (170),
                      The French Connection (104),
                      The Godfather (175), The Sting (129),
                      The Godfather, Part II (200),
                      One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (133),
                      Rocky (119), Annie Hall (93),
                      The Deer Hunter (183)
1980-1989   139 min.  Kramer vs. Kramer (105), Ordinary People (124), Chariots of Fire (124),
                      Gandhi (188), Terms of Endearment (132), Amadeus (158),
                      Out of Africa (150), Platoon (120), The Last Emperor (160),
                      Rain Man (133)
1990-1991   152 min.  Driving Miss Daisy (99), Dances with Wolves (183),
                      The Silence of the Lambs (118), Unforgiven (131),
                      Schindler's List (197), Forrest Gump (142), Braveheart (177),
                      The English Patient (160), Titanic (194), Shakespeare in Love (122)

If you’re looking for an “experimental” film, try Night for Nixie, the film my best fiend just finished. :wink:

Great to know so many others are frustrated with the state of movies today. I just needed to get that little rant off my chest.

Sofa King, all the movies you listed are great. What bothers me about them is that they are the movies that should have the promotion budgets, the distribution, the hype that is currently reserved for Rehashed Junk, Part III: The Next Return. The independent film circuit is great, but those films deserve to be playing more screens, and making more money. My beef is with Hollywood’s constant backing of formula over art. It seems that, when an original film does well, instead of saying “Hey, the public wants original movies! Let’s fund some more!” the Hollywood execs say “Hey, the public wants more movies just like this one! Let’s make some carbon copies!”

pugluvr, there are still movies that make use of long takes. Sixth Sense was a good example, and there are others, but it’s basically a style. And styles change. Soon, there will be more movies like Hitchcock’s Rope, which was all one long shot. Or Jean Luc Godard’s traffic jam scene in Weekend

You’ve got to get a better movie theater, or complain to the management about the conditions in there. That sounds disgusting; the theaters here are spotless. Except the ones with all the X’s on the billboards…

I agree about ticket prices, but I wouldn’t mind if half the overpromoted stuff I watched had something original involved in it. What I do mind is paying an outrageous amount for a movie that’s less entertaining than its trailer.

And as to length, I feel about the same way. If the movie needs to be an epic, by all means, let it run for three hours. Saving Private Ryan was a story that filled its running time admirably. But these are special cases, and most movies can be told really well in under an hour and a half. It’s called pacing.

Once again, thanks for letting me rant. Days like this, I don’t know where I’d be without these boards. Standing on a streetcorner, haranguing passers-by, I suppose.

Bah! To take my family to see The Phantom Menace, it cost $70. Maybe I’m just getting old and grouchy, but I could have bought three copies of the movie for that!! Which, in fact I did when it came out on video, due to a string of birthday parties.

It’s not much cheaper for two to go out and pay a babysitter. I try not to go to the movies too often.

Technically, Rope was not all one shot. It was 10-minute takes that were ingeniously designed to look like one long take.

Godard also shortened shots by cutting out “irrelevant” stuff. Someone might light a cigarette, then there’s a jump-cut to the but being squashed. No need to show the audience the cigarette being smoked because they know that it is. My fiend used this technique in his critically-lambasted Zombie! vs. Mardi Gras. (I guess the critics aren’t Godard fans.)

Another director that makes use of long takes is Jim Jarmusch. The first time I saw one of his films it was very refreshing. Some people think his films are “slow”, but I like the technique.

I’m a fan of wide-angle shots like cinematographer Vilmos Zsigmond uses.

I was listening to the radio the other day and they related that movie profits are down 12% compared to this time last year and ticket sales are down 16%.

We rarely pay full price to go to a movie and I will happily wait until it hits the discount theatres before I shell out my hard earned two to four dollars to see a movie.

I hear from most people that concession prices are an issue as well, items are grossly overpriced and I believe that this is where the theatre makes a good deal of it’s profits as they have to pay quite a bit of the ticket price to the films distributors.

People don’t like to be overcharged and this is probably one of the contributing factors for the decline in attendance and profits for the movie studios and theatre chains. If we are taking the kids going to the movies is not an inexpensive trip for us.

The cheap theatres are usually always packed, people still like to go the movies but just hate what they have to pay at the megaplexes.

It seems to me that the Hollywood moguls are terrified of attempting anything that is not a proven formula.

Consequently, I find myself desperately wishing to just be surprised at anything in a film. That’s what struck me about Pulp Fiction, my favorite film of the last ten years. It was unpredictable.

If I wrote a letter to Hollywood, the main thrust of it might be, “Guess what guys - they don’t always live happily ever after.” If I see one more film where the hero gets the girl I’m going to go into projectile vomiting.

I respect films that have the guts to have an unhappy ending. Or even films that don’t give into the romance story cliche. For example, take A Few Good Men. Pretty good courtroom drama. But what really redeemed it for me is that Tom Cruise and Demi Moore did NOT end up getting it on. It would have been a distraction. The people who made that film wisely chose to simply tell the story.

Yeah, that’s it - just tell the damn story. Forget about the romance crap unless that is THE story. Take Pearl Harbor, for example. Newsweek ran a story in which they quoted an executive saying that you had to have a love story in it. He compared it to Titanic by saying (paraphrase) “Without the love story, all you have is a boat that sinks.”

That’s not enough?!

But back to Pearl Harbor, I don’t think it would have been undercutting things to simply tell the story of the invasion. I mean honestly - spicing up the Pearl Friggin’ Harbor invasion with a love story?! C’mon.

Quick hijack:

If Roger Ebert reviewed porn movies, do you think he would rate it good by giving it a thumb IN?

And AFGM was based on a play. Maybe that tells you something. Although I seem to recall that in the original the Demi Moore role was played by a man, but I could be wrong.

Not for me, not to see Titanic. I didn’t see it precisely because the love story held no interest for me. I’ve seen parts of older Titanic films, though, and found those to be interesting. So I think it was drippy Leo and Kate that killed it for me more than anything else. I also had no interest in seeing Pearl Harbor. Not because of the romance, but because it looked like a hideously boring movie. If you can’t find a single scene to put in the PREVIEW that I find interesting, then forget it.

I won’t go see a movie full-price at night anymore, unless it’s something I’m desperate to see. I actually get bitter and resentful if I see something for $7.50 that I know I’d have been perfectly happy spending $2.50 for at the budget.

Notice that since both Titanic and The Gladiator won Best Picture, Hollywood has been trying to create summer epic films, instead of waiting until Oscar season, pre-Christmas. And they act like they don’t know how to do it (although I thought Titanic was very impressive, I too could have done without the obligatory love story). A lot of expensive CGI effects and attractive stars and you’ve got an instant hit, right? They’ve been trying to re-create the summer blockbuster successes of Jaws and Star Wars since those movies were released, but act as if they don’t know the first thing about how to tell a story on film.

Of course, Hollywood has been run by business school grads since about 1980, so this is nothing new. And filmmakers have always had to deal with meddling producers (paging Mr. Selznick, paging Mr. Selznick). But I still don’t understand why the last five or ten years have seen so many sequels made from mediocre first films or so many movies made from TV shows. Even if the resulting movie’s pretty good (I thought the Addams Family movies were fun), who thought we needed to see “The Beverly Hillbillies” made into a movie?