"Dear Justice Thomas, I'm Sorry You're a Shilling Asswipe, Love Anita Hill"

[elucidator]

Gotta admit, “draped in flowing sanctimony” is some pretty good stuff. But that latter stuff is kinda non-specific. Just who were these “left-wing zealots” (who are, presumably, white, given the context, being the “white people” he should have been afraid of). Would these, by any chance, be the same race-baiting zealots who opposed Bork? Rather an easily confused bunch, don’t you think?

The choir knows all the hymns. Hymn #301, “Lord, What a Cesspool Are Our Colleges, Where Innocent Minds Are Warped Astray!”, to be followed by Hymn #23, “Everybody Knows Its the Liberals Who Are the *Real *Racists!” (I believe Sean H hummed a few bars in the above mentioned interview…)

@John

…He was, for instance, one of the founding members of the Black Student Union at Holy Cross…

Well, there you have it! When it comes to seething hotbeds of revolutionary fervor, your Jesuit colleges are the very cutting edge of Catholic Marxism. But you seem to have a minor chicken-egg conflict there: if he was a “founding member of the Black Student Union” (whose revolutionary credentials are not known to be, but I’ll take your word for it…), then he would have been an indoctrinator, rather than the subject of same, no? Perhaps his mind was warped by that flaming Trotskyist, Ben Stein.

[woodstockbirdybird]

@Sampiro

Thomas has a point. There were few things that terrified black people, Jews, Catholics, and others more in the Jim Crow era than people chasing them with sanctimony. I understand that in some areas black mothers still use Ted Kennedy and Eleanor Roosevelt as quasi-mythological figures to scare their children into behaving.

Well, if there’s ever a movement for sanctimony reparations, remind me to sign up - even though I’m white, I had to sit through a U2 concert once where Bono wouldn’t shut the fuck up about Central America or Serbia or wherever the fuck it was he was rambling about. I guarantee you that kind of shit doesn’t happen at P-Funk shows.

[John_Mace]

@brickbacon

Here is the relevant quote from the book:

The cite also has excepts from his interview with Hannity.

That is what I remember. He is talking about his personal experience, not making a generalized statement.

@elucidator

Well, there you have it! When it comes to seething hotbeds of revolutionary fervor, your Jesuit colleges are the very cutting edge of Catholic Marxism. But you seem to have a minor chicken-egg conflict there: if he was a “founding member of the Black Student Union” (whose revolutionary credentials are not known to be, but I’ll take your word for it…), then he would have been an indoctrinator, rather than the subject of same, no? Perhaps his mind was warped by that flaming Trotskyist, Ben Stein.

I suspect it would go both ways (the indoctrination). He didn’t **invent **the idea of a Black Student Union, and presumably got the idea, and mentoring, for others who had done so earlier. But frankly, we don’t know who he is talking about. Coulda been profs. Coulda been lecturers. Coulda been books he read. Coulda been his older cousin or his gay lover. Coulda been all of the above. You are spinning a tale that, while certainly plausible, is not the only tale that can be spun. The fact that you focus in on one and only one tale, a tale which cast doubts on his credibility, says more about you than about him.

[Mr.Moto]

@elucidator

Well, there you have it! When it comes to seething hotbeds of revolutionary fervor, your Jesuit colleges are the very cutting edge of Catholic Marxism. But you seem to have a minor chicken-egg conflict there: if he was a “founding member of the Black Student Union” (whose revolutionary credentials are not known to be, but I’ll take your word for it…), then he would have been an indoctrinator, rather than the subject of same, no? Perhaps his mind was warped by that flaming Trotskyist, Ben Stein.

What chicken-egg conflict do you mean?

I’m sure you will agree that hens and roosters were eggs at some point.

[Sampiro]

@woodstockbirdybird

Well, if there’s ever a movement for sanctimony reparations, remind me to sign up - even though I’m white, I had to sit through a U2 concert once where Bono wouldn’t shut the fuck up about Central America or Serbia or wherever the fuck it was he was rambling about. I guarantee you that kind of shit doesn’t happen at P-Funk shows.

Reparations would never be an option. The payouts to those who’ve attended Morrisey concerts alone would break the UK treasury, while Streisand and Sean Penn fans would do the same to the US before the AlGoreaphobes and those injured by Rosie O’Donnell were even able to make a single claim.

[Crafter_Man]

@lalenin

Has the issue of Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas ever been debated in the SDMB? If so, can someone point me to the thread(s)? This sounds like a fascinating event.

Yea. And can someone point me to the SDMB thread where the same amount of disgust is displayed at Mr. Clinton for being a liar and (purportedly) raping & groping numerous women?

[Sampiro]

@Crafter_Man

Yea. And can someone point me to the SDMB thread where the same amount of disgust is displayed at Mr. Clinton for being a liar and (purportedly) raping & groping numerous women?

Waitress, we’re ready for our relevance check…

[Leaper]

And there are still folks absolutely sure that Hill was lying.

In lalenin’s defense, this IS fascinating. There was no blogosphere when this issue first came up, so it’s interesting to see what today’s pundits, politicos, and commentators say about it.

[Crafter_Man]

@Sampiro

Waitress, we’re ready for our relevance check…

Look, I’m not a fan of Thomas either. I just find it interesting so many dopers are quick to pounce on Thomas over Hill yet would never dream of pitting Mr. Clinton.

[Sampiro]

@Crafter_Man

Look, I’m not a fan of Thomas either. I just find it interesting so many dopers are quick to pounce on Thomas over Hill yet would never dream of pitting Mr. Clinton.

This is a Thomas pitting thread, not a Clinton pitting thread. If Clinton were to release a book saying Monica Lewinsky was lying or denying his adulteries, then it would be the same.

Though I’ll admit, I don’t believe Paula Jones was a total victim anymore than I believe Monica was a solitary indiscretion.

[John_Mace]

Every thread is about Clinton.

And Bush.

[OneCentStamp]

@John Mace

Every thread is about Clinton.

And Bush.

That’s because Clinton is all about bush.

[Bricker]

@Sampiro

Note to self: THAT’S why a straight conservative knows Mimi’s songs from RENT- now it falls into place.

,

Just to be clear: I never worked at the Cat Scratch Club.

[Sampiro]

@Bricker

Just to be clear: I never worked at the Cat Scratch Club.

Was it due to the low pay and benefits, or because it seemed too damned much like home when the Spanish babies cry?

[elucidator]

@John Mace

… says more about you than about him.

How I have labored for your good opinion, how mightily, and how long - how long, oh, Lord! How long!..and yet the luminous prize eludes me. I only hope I can throw off the tendrils of despair and find a reason to go on with a life made grey and drab.

No, I am inconsolable, don’t even try, I am bereft, I have only the prospect of sobbing myself to sleep with my banky and pillow. Of course, if I could trade pillows with Bricker…

[scotandrsn]

@Crafter_Man

Look, I’m not a fan of Thomas either. I just find it interesting so many dopers are quick to pounce on Thomas over Hill yet would never dream of pitting Mr. Clinton.

I think you’re response was misplaced, C-M. If lalenin is to be taken at his word in previous threads, he only recently arrived to the North American mainland from Cuba comparatively recently, and was not stateside for the Hill-Thomas hearings.
lalenin, the Dope was founded several years after the event, subsequent to a number of far more salacious scandals involving President Bill Clinton, so I don’t think it ever got a serious thrashing on this board.

The following is my recollection of the sequence of events.

When Thurgood Marshall, the first black man to hold a seat on the U.S. Supreme court, died, there was some public pressure to put another black on the court. Clarence Thomas was nominated by President George H.W. Bush, and approved by the Senate, or was about to be approved by the Senate.

However, it suddenly came to light that one of Thomas’ former employees in a government office, Anita Hill, a black woman, had serious allegations of sexual harassment against Thomas. The Senate decided to hold an additional round of hearings to find out what was what, an unprecedented move. Hill, reportedly reluctantly, got up in front of a nationally-televised hearing and proceeded, in a nervous but frank manner, to lay out a litany of accusations: that Thomas, while she was in his employ, would brag about the size of his penis, and attempt to hold office-wide discussions about pornographic films starring a performer named “Long Dong Silver”. He once, she claimed, placed a pubic hair on the top of a can of Coke she was drinking. And on and on with several more stories I can’t recall.

Her words hit the country like a bombshell. The hearings immediately descended into partisan bickering, with last-minute witnesses called for both sides. American feminists praised Hill for bringing sexual harassment out from under a cloud of secrecy, while conservatives claimed she was making it all up to aggrandize herself or push forward a liberal agenda to try and get Thomas blocked from the bench. The nominee himself got up and pronounced the proceedings a “high-tech lynching of uppity black men”.

At the end of it all, there was only a two-vote change in the 100-member Senate, and Thomas was once againg approved to the Supreme Court, where he remains, and can remain for life, if he so chooses. Hill went on to several law professor positions, and pretty much has not been heard from by anyone but her students ever since.

That’s what I recall, anyway.

[Bricker]

@Sampiro

Was it due to the low pay and benefits, or because it seemed too damned much like home when the Spanish babies cry?

Turned out I wasn’t old for my age at 19, that’s all.

[elucidator]

@Mr. Moto

What chicken-egg conflict do you mean?

I’m sure you will agree that hens and roosters were eggs at some point.

I hate chickens. When I eat eggs, I am pleased to have prevented a chicken. When I eat chicken, it adds pleasure that one of the nasty little fuckers is dead. Most are too stupid to be vicious, just feathered clumps of witless malice. Jesus hates chickens, too. I’m pretty sure about that.

What was the question again?

[Zoe]

One of the things that makes me uneasy about Justice Thomas is that there doesn’t seem to be a middle ground for him. Not only did he move from a radical left position to a very conservative position, he also abandoned his training for the priesthood and, if I understood correctly, left the Roman Catholic Church. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

My overall impression of the Sixty Minutes interview was of a man who is “all or nothing at all.” That’s not very emotionally intelligent.

One thing I didn’t like at the hearing was when he compared Anita Hill’s testimony (and, I assume, the questioning that followed) to a lynching. When his character was called into question, he used a word sure to evoke the racial issue. Why? Anita Hill’s testimony had nothing to do with race. Nor did the questions asked of him by Senate liberals. His choice of words was manipulative as hell.

Anita Hill struck me as a woman with a great deal of courage and dignity. She didn’t strike me as someone who would take a lot of pleasure in getting up and talking about public hairs before the U.S. Senate on live television. And for what purpose?

It also bothers me that Justice Thomas can be so snarling about the liberal point of view. He refers to liberals as “Left Wingers.” That leaves me thinking that I can pretty much tell how Justice Thomas is going to rule on an issue before the case has been heard and I don’t know law. Maybe he should use more discretion if he is not going to use more sense.

[Zoe]

Orbifold: Seriously, though, what’s his problem? He’s been at the pinnacle of his chosen profession since 1991. He’s got the brass ring, and he doesn’t have to let go until he dies. What the hell else does he want?

I think he wants to know that he deserved the job. And he is never going to have that satisfaction.

DrDeth: You should know by know that a " lie detector test" is about as reliable and scientific as Phrenology.

Really? I know they’re not accurate enough to be admitted into evidence in court, but I think they are a little more accurate than nonsense.

Dinsdale: I’d be interested in seeing where the other justices went to school and how they did. I guess I always thought they were Law Review, Order of the Coif types at the top of their classes at the top schools - but I certainly may be mistaken. I know that is generally what you need to clerk for them…

I believe I read that O’Connor and another one of the justices – Renquist? – graduated law school in the same class. One was in first place and the other in third. Can you imagine how the person in second place must have felt?

Vinyl Turnip: …hand-carved so opulently it would move Bernini to tears.

Ooooh! You are good…

Mr. Moto: If one of its[affirmative action’s] goals is to advance racial harmony and understanding, it has to do a better job. If it can’t (and I think it can) then it ought to be abolished.

Making it class-based rather than race-based would be a huge first step.

Mr. Moto, affirmative action has been one of the most affective tools in moving our country from the days of Jim Crow to a more civilized and blended society. It has advanced racial harmony and understanding.

My first year in college was the first year that any African American was admitted to that college. He always walked alone and sat by himself in the cafeteria. I remember hearing girls at my table (Northerners, by the way) discussing what they would do if he came over and sat down at their table.

So just try to keep in mind what things once were like within the memories of some of us here. And I will concede that I think that it would be a very good idea if affirmative action moved on to become supportive of those who have been economically disadvantaged. Can you imagine growing up in a house with no books?