Dear Og, I forgot how bad "ID-4" was...

[MacTech]

Dear Og, I forgot how bad “ID-4” was…

Tonight, I’m continuing my July 4th tradition of watching the movie “Independence Day”, yes… that Independence Day…

I’m watching it with the mindset of it being a “Remove Brain and Enjoy” type film, and I enjoy a good B movie as much as the next man, what self respecting MST3K fan wouldn’t?

thing is, i’m less than 15 minutes into the film and my brain is already screaming “MAKE IT STOP, PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!!”, the sheer improbability of the physics of the mothership alone (if it masses 1/4 of the moon, simply park it in orbit and allow gravitational effects to trash the planet, no need for Cityships or Interceptors), and the introduction of the Stereotypical Drunk With A Heart Of Gold That You Know Will Make A Major Sacrifice And Save The Planet (SDWAHOGTYKWMAMSASTP) was groaningly bad, as was seeing the millitary running around in a panic like a chicken with it’s head cut off…

remind me again, WHY am I watching this crappy movie again, heck, The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra was shot on purpose as a cheesy movie and is eminently more believable and well written than ID4, and TLSOC was TRYING to be bad

AGGHH!!! kill me now, Harvey Firestein’s on screen in full hissyfit panic…

No, I must be strong, must persevere, must see this through 'till the end…

ARRRRGGHH!!!, SDWAHOGTYKWMAMSASTP is having a coronary about the Cityships now…

So, how much do you dislike ID4, how would you recast/refilm it (no, destroying it /not filming it is not a viable option… )

[MaxTheVool]

@MacTech

So, how much do you dislike ID4

Not all that much, actually. I never got the feeling it took itself seriously, unlike, say, Armaggedon.

[Troy_McClure_SF]

@MaxTheVool

Not all that much, actually. I never got the feeling it took itself seriously, unlike, say, Armaggedon.

True. I’m a bit surprised they didn’t flash the words “Oscar nomination scene” over Bill Pullman’s “…this is our independence day!”

[teela_brown]

When I see that ID4 is on, I might tune in just to see Brent Spiner’s performance or maybe Will Smith cussing out the alien that he’s dragging. Other than those two moments, the movie makes me hurl.

[msmith537]

Hey I still can’t help watching either of those movies whenever they are on.
What gravitational effects to envision “trashing the planet”? The mothership is going to drag Earth out of it’s orbit or something? If you want to complain about something, complain about where all those fragments from the busted mothership are going to land.

Or the wacky physics of F18s (we all saw Top Gun and we know how fighter planes fly).

Or why the city ships’ main weapon’s range doesn’t exceed it’s blast radius.

[Der_Trihs]

While it’s fun if I turn my brain off, there are quite a few things that always bothered me.

• They try one nuke, and give up. Hello ! If one is too weak, try ten. Or a hundred; it’s not like there’s any reason to hold back.
• Mile ( miles ? ) wide city destroyers that use a huge, short range gun to do almost as much damage as we can do with an ICBM from much farther away.
• The gigantic city destroyer with shields down actually being threatened by teeny-tiny missles designed to kill teeny-tiny aircraft. Did the make it out of paper mache ?
• When the city destroyer crashes near the bunker, they aren’t all killed from the shockwave, nor buried under a wave or thrown rubble.
• A single nuke blows up something 1/4th the size of the moon; suuuuure it would.
• The relevance of the 4th of July/Independence Day rhetoric against an enemy that isn’t trying to conquer America, but destroy humanity.

[MacTech]

In the New York tunnel scene, where Will Smith’s girlfreind, her son and their dog are running from the fireball, said fireball would have consumed the oxygen in the tunnel, potentially suffocating the people in the tunnel

as Air Force One is taking off while being chased by the fireball, the rapidly rising hot air would have pushed up on the plane’s tailfin, forcing the nose into the runway at high speed

the 1/4 moon mass mothership would cause severe coastal tidal effects

Heck, I’m a card-carrying Mac fanatic, and even I groaned when Goldblum used a PowerBook 3400 running Mac OS 9 to upload a virus into the alien OS, but then again, the Mac has always been the most compatible computer when it comes to non-native OS’s, Unix, Linux, Virtual PC/windows, even unknown, non-human designed OS’s

at least the broadcast/theatrical movie didn’t use the original ending where Russell Case, in his STEARMAN BIPLANE is able to keep up with F/A-18’s and fly his missile (strapped to the side of the cockpit) into the plasma weapon…

[DooWahDiddy]

@Der Trihs

While it’s fun if I turn my brain off, there are quite a few things that always bothered me.

• They try one nuke, and give up. Hello ! If one is too weak, try ten. Or a hundred; it’s not like there’s any reason to hold back.

I agree with everything else, but didn’t they only try one nuke because of the innocent fatalities on the ground?

[Julius_Henry]

I actually paid money to see this thing in the theater. But I survived by playing the game of “Guess what movie this scene is stolen from.” I had a good time, even if most of the answers were either “War of the Worlds” or “Mission: Mars.”

@Troy McClure SF

I’m a bit surprised they didn’t flash the words “Oscar nomination scene” over Bill Pullman’s “…this is our independence day!”

Read this sentence often, people. It may be the only time the phrase “Oscar nomination” and the name “Bill Pullman” will ever be used together.

[msmith537]

@Der Trihs

• They try one nuke, and give up. Hello ! If one is too weak, try ten. Or a hundred; it’s not like there’s any reason to hold back.

Well it obviously didn’t work, at all, but all that aside, I never understood Goldblumes objections. These aliens are going around obliterating cities with a death ray (presumably 1920s style) and their worried about using nukes…why?

@Der Trihs

• Mile ( miles ? ) wide city destroyers that use a huge, short range gun to do almost as much damage as we can do with an ICBM from much farther away.

I got nothing. (15 miles wide IIRC).

@Der Trihs

• The gigantic city destroyer with shields down actually being threatened by teeny-tiny missles designed to kill teeny-tiny aircraft. Did the make it out of paper mache ?

Yeah that bothered me too. They would have enough trouble brining something that bif down with a tactical nuke, let alone Sidewinder missles.

@Der Trihs

• When the city destroyer crashes near the bunker, they aren’t all killed from the shockwave, nor buried under a wave or thrown rubble.

Again, I got nothing…

@Der Trihs

• A single nuke blows up something 1/4th the size of the moon; suuuuure it would.

They did set it off in the hanger. It’s not inconcievable that the nuke caused a chain reaction of exploding fuel, reactors and weaponry that blew up the ship.

At least it wasn’t an proton torpedo down an exhaust port.

@Der Trihs

• The relevance of the 4th of July/Independence Day rhetoric against an enemy that isn’t trying to conquer America, but destroy humanity.

Why do you hate America.

[Loopydude]

Eh, it’s a Stupid Action Movie that never pretended to be otherwise. I give it a pass for lack of pretention.

[5_time_champ]

I saw at the theater when it first came out, and haven’t felt the need to see it since.

About the only redeeming feature in the entire movie was the line from the woman waiting on the platform for the ship to land, “I hope they have Elvis!”

[BrainGlutton]

@MacTech

So, how much do you dislike ID4, how would you recast/refilm it (no, destroying it /not filming it is not a viable option… )

OK, let’s keep the basic concept. Earth is invaded by an ancient race of ETs who are “like locusts” – they go from life-bearing world to life-bearing world, exterminate any sentient inhabitants, and move on; they have technology that is to ours as is ours to that of the beasts that perish; and they have never, ever in their long history been defeated.

Only one way to play that: The ETs win!

[Der_Trihs]

@DooWahDiddy

I agree with everything else, but didn’t they only try one nuke because of the innocent fatalities on the ground?

IIRC the aliens had already blown up the city; if they hadn’t, they’d soon get around to it. They’re dead one way or another. Besides, mulitple nukes to the same spot wouldn’t make the fireball much bigger, just concentrate more force on the shields.

[Larry_Borgia]

You’d figure the Russians would have thrown all the nukes they had at the City Destroyers.

Also, the shields. I can suspend disbelief about the physics of the shields, but even without shields the enemy fighters should have obliterated the F-18’s. The aliens were vastly more maneuverable and greatly outnumbered the Americans, few of whom were trained on their fighters.

[MaxTheVool]

@Der Trihs

• The gigantic city destroyer with shields down actually being threatened by teeny-tiny missles designed to kill teeny-tiny aircraft. Did the make it out of paper mache ?
• A single nuke blows up something 1/4th the size of the moon; suuuuure it would.

These two don’t bother me. For the first one, don’t they have to hit it directly where the sun don’t shine, ie, in a small thermal exhaust port directly below the main port, ie, where the beam comes out? Even if that doesn’t make “sense” in some technical sense (which I suppose it might… perhaps the Aliens are overconfident because they put all their money into their Very Hackproof OS and are thus sure their shields will never fail), it certainly follows a fine sci-fi tradition. Sidewinder missiles are just as much good against those honking big things as proton torpedoes are against the death star. For the second one, something 1/4 the size of the moon might still only have a fairly small control/engine/reactor/arsenal area. And a nuke makes a really frickin big bang.

[Baldwin]

Yep, stupid movie. As noted, the basic premise had potential (if not originality).

What the Hell do people mean when they talk about “turning their brains off” when they watch a movie?

[Snooooopy]

@MacTech

Heck, I’m a card-carrying Mac fanatic, and even I groaned when Goldblum used a PowerBook 3400 running Mac OS 9 to upload a virus into the alien OS, but then again, the Mac has always been the most compatible computer when it comes to non-native OS’s, Unix, Linux, Virtual PC/windows, even unknown, non-human designed OS’s.

What, evil spacefaring locusts can’t embrace the notion of backward compatibility? How do you think they get their Zork fix?

Arthur C. Clarke used the same general principle in one of his stories. Then again, it didn’t sound particularly convincing even coming from his pen.

[Charger]

@MacTech

In the New York tunnel scene, where Will Smith’s girlfreind, her son and their dog are running from the fireball, said fireball would have consumed the oxygen in the tunnel, potentially suffocating the people in the tunnel

Everyone always points out the science of that scene, but what bothers me more is that they desperately try to make that dog’s leap for life so dramatic. They assume that we are going to be on the edges of our seats with concern for the dog, while not caring that a wall of fire kills hundreds of other people in the tunnel.

I so wanted to see that dog get swept away in the fire as the door was about to close (which it didn’t).

Okay, and it’s a good thing for them that fire doesn’t know how to turn corners.

I thought that tunnel scene was supposed to be in L.A.

I also assumed that the alien computers were compatible with Macs because the aliens were evil.

[BrainGlutton]

@Charger

I also assumed that the alien computers were compatible with Macs because the aliens were evil.