QFT
Australia has a pretty high minimum wage and people go on about that being part of the reason things are expensive here (a cup of coffee is basically $5 or near enough to it in many places now).
I was in the US for business earlier this year and surprised by how expensive everything was - my recollection from my previous visit was how the US was cheap compared to Australia, but this time around once you factored in the ForEx conversions etc it was pretty much the same for the most part, with a few exceptions (clothing was the big one - that was much cheaper).
The short version is I think a higher minimum wage is only going to have benefits as more people have more money to buy stuff with.
Just as a general observation, when you have banks, corporations/big businesses posting multi-billion dollar profits in any given financial year, you know someone is being screwed over.
No they don’t. Do you buy anything made with foreign labor? Eat any produce picked by migrant workers?
“why you think I should work at least as hard as you do for far less money, I don’t understand”
Dear OP, I am not rich, I’m middle class. I was born lower class. I put myself throuh 6 years of university, worked my way through, paid for it all by myself: my parents had no money to help me. Why should you not work harder for less money than I do? Did you do anything to create a future career for yourself? Did you finish high school and go to college, or at least a community college, where you could learn a trade and earn an AA? Did you do anything at all to create a secure future for yourself. You work for minimum wage because you made no effort to take care of yourself any better. Your problem, not mine, or anyone else’s.
When you have worked your way through even 4 years of university, you centainly deserve more than minimum wage. When will that be?
I think minimum wage and all wages/salaries should be consisent with the cost of living in the area where you live. Move to Seattle, for example. You’ll get $15 an hour mimimum wage; however, the cost of living is fairly high.
I’ve got news for ya, that pretty much has bullshit to do with the minimum wage, and everything to do with the fact that you were lucky enough to have this argument today.
In the end, if the public is willing to accept it, an automated menu system is cheaper than a cashier, no matter what the minimum wage. Hell, you can buy the hardware for a station with what you would pay a full time employee in a week, and they can only work 40 hours before they get more expensive. Before current touch screen tech and cheap hi-res displays became common, people just wouldn’t accept having to learn how to use the machine to do anything more complex than getting cash from an ATM.
McD could have done this in a cost effective manner 25 years ago. I was working at Ticketmaster when they brought out the equivalent to an ATM for event tickets. It wasn’t a bad machine, in fact it was more convenient than anything but phoning in your order and picking up your tickets at will call. People still didn’t use it, because you had to learn something more complex than pointing at what you want. If you knew how to use a phone and chat with a person about seats, you knew how to buy tickets already, and the folks in the phone center were safe in their jobs. When they piggybacked on an interface that people already understood (a web browser) automated ticket sales finally took off. Before touch screens became the interface to everyone’s phone, you were almost asking folks to apply for an office job to buy dinner if you wanted to automate the cashier.
So, it’s a technological moment that caused that, nothing to do with cost. It’s socially possible now because the tech and society have gotten to the point where they work together, so it will start to happen.
Yep, the problem with folks who think like Llama Llogophile’s customer is that they think it’s a zero sum game. It’s not. This would be a pretty goddam effective way of increasing the average consumer’s buying power by giving cash to the people who are starving to spend it. If you sell something (IOW, if you’re truly “in business”), it’s eventually consumed either directly or indirectly by the least wealthy consumers.
The monetary value of everyone above a certain level of income in the US would certainly decrease in the short term, which is why $10, $15, or $30 is debatable. Not everyone is in the OP’s position, some people aren’t making the minimum wage. Some people are on a fixed income from other sources. Screw the rich, it’s mostly just a measure of how rich they are, and not a matter of survival. They can be eaten by far less than half of the poor.
But, if I had my way, magically knew the amount to issue at a given time and magically knew who to appoint as king after myself, I’d put out a guaranteed minimum income.
No. I work for the State of California, caring for elderly people in their homes. We make $12.50 an hour. While I am mostly occupied by ordinary tasks like cleaning, cooking, helping my client bathe, getting groceries (ha ha, on a bicycle. this is big fun when getting staples like gallons of milk, bags of apples and potatoes etc.) and so on, I have at times needed to do things like painting interiors and fixing things around the house.(that’s nothing. I have a private client who has had me do things like editing his book and helping him put on a new roof.)
The problem I think some of you may have understanding why $15 an hour is not only absolutely essential, but woefully inadequate, is that I live in the SF Bay Area. I was born here, my parents were born here, my grandparents lived here most of their lives. A studio apartment here goes for upwards of $2000 a month. Today my client sent me to the store for 3 things: A gallon of milk, a Bic lighter, and a box of (10) kitchen trash bags. This cost her more than ten dollars.
It sounds to me like the cost of living is lower in other places – otherwise I honestly can’t believe how anyone could possibly pay rent anywhere and expect to also eat, making $7.25 an hour. Around here, you can drop $100 at the grocery store, and come out with one bag. I am not exaggerating.
Hopefully, the fact that California has just legalized marijuana will result in a major increase in revenue here, and then maybe we’ll get a living wage.
I would hope that people who are already making $15 an hour now – “double the minimum wage” as some have pointed out – will, in the event of a raised minimum wage, receive raises from their employers in recognition of the fact that their current employees are more skilled and valued than just any minimum-wage worker.
Don’t forget that these employers have been taking more and more profit home from their businesses as the cost of every.single.thing. rises steeply every day. It’s time for them to share this bonanza. The owner of Wal-Mart, for instance, is not going to be going without food on his table if he suddenly has to pay his employees more.
Not a chance; with the Republicans taking control they’ll crack down on *that *immediately.
Their interest in “states rights” only extends to right wing states and right wing agendas.
Exactly. If you give people more money, most of them don’t stick under the mattress for a rainy day - they buy shit with it.
Said shit has to be sold by people, which means more staff at businesses. It’s very shortsighted to QQ about paying people, IMHO.
The former state government here went on a huge staff reduction spree when they got elected a few years back - something like 20,000 people lost their jobs in the interests of “efficiency” and “cost cutting”. But what happened was it had widespread consequences across the entire state - cafes in town closed down or laid staff off because they no longer had the public servants coming in for a cheeky afternoon caffeine fix; families tightened their belts because only one person was working so buying luxuries wasn’t an option - you get the idea.
Obviously the reverse would also be true - give people more money, watch as spending increases and everyone’s happy.
I appreciate in the short term there’ll be a ottom line impact on the spreadsheets, but generally - if you’re paying people $15 an hour, it’s going to work out pretty well and you’re going to have happier and more productive staff because they know they can afford their rent, petrol, bills, food and maybe even do something nice with the family at the weekend.
The problem with housing in SF is [lack of ] supply and [lots of] demand. If more money enters the fray, landlords will just raise the rents… because they can. So then you put in rent control, and the supply shrinks even more.
BTW: The MW in SF is set to rise to $15/hr in about 18 months. Right now it’s $13/hr, going to $14/hr Jul-2017, $15/hr Jul-2018. So, there you go. Hang in there for 18 months and you’re golden.
Yes. Our social/economic system that requires employment in profit-driven enterprises in order for the citizenry to qualify for basic food/housing/comfort is only being kept afloat (to the benefit of the wealthy) by keeping wages at the bottom below anything useful or reasonable.
Many jobs, cashiers being one of them, are kept on life support by low wages. Let’s get rid of these jobs; if they’re of so little value, and if they can be replaced by a computer, out on the street they go!
In this modern 21st century, we need to figure out how to reshape our society into one that cares for and allows for comforts for its people regardless of employment, because there just aren’t enough jobs. I mean, there’s always something to do, but the worth of so many tasks is decreasing, predictably, thanks to amazing technological advancements.
Raising the minimum wage in the moment some amount is likely a necessary stopgap, but it only kicks the can down the road. Jobs are disappearing. There are too many people and too few wealth-generating things to do.
If we don’t start working on how to distribute wealth differently, we’re just going to see a slow increase of working poor, angry, and violent people who see no way out.
While I whole-heartedly support this pitting, 've got to ask- is there any particular reason why you don’t just switch to glasses? As long as you get that initial prescription, you can get them dirt-cheap online ($20 a pair, rather than over $100 through optometrist’s office). And they last a heck of a lot longer than contacts.
How is he only making $12.50 an hour if the MW is $13/hr?
I don’t know that much about Calvinism but it sounds like you know less.
Prosperity theology is a heresy to most Christians who don’t watch the 700 club. It is quid pro quo with God. “Believe in me (usually evidenced by giving lot and lots of money to Pat Robertson) and I will reward you with even MORE lots and lots of money.”
There is a disdain for sloth and greed and envy.
I support a $10 minimum wage. Index it to inflation and revisit it once every ten years or so.
It depends on the price the business now has to charge.
Why should I pay a journeyman carpenter $34/hr to carry 2x4’s up the stairs to the third floor?
Damn, I wish I could find someone who would do this for $10/hr … but I have to pay $14 just to get a drug addict or fugitive to do this kind of work … that’s because this is something that’s called “hard work” … maybe the OP would be shocked at the volume of lazy pussies who won’t work hard for any wage …
Now you want me to pay $15/hr … first thing is all the drug addicts and fugitive will leave to find easy work … leaving me to have to pay $22/hr for my grunts … the carpenters will want $55/hr …
NOW the house you want to buy will cost a whole shit load more … because I’m going to be making $125/hr as the boss … and as owner I double my money … someone has to have the $300,000 to invest up front … it’s only fair they should walk away with $600,000, don’t you agree?
I’m not saying raising minimum wage is inflationary in all circumstances … but it is inflationary in the housing market … because the work is labor intensive … home prices will rise … home repair services will rise … and rents will rise even more …
I think the OP should go find a construction site and ask how much the carpenters make … then come back here and apologize for whining about having to carry a gallon of milk … sheesh … lazy people will never get rich …
To be fair, its not his jet, he had to rent it. I mean how rich could he be?
Why do you think you’re only barely worth a living wage?
Is your client working for minimum wage? If not, where will she get the money to cover the increased cost of labor at the store, which will be reflected in the goods she sends you out to buy?
I assume she won’t get the money from you, even if you get a raise.
Regards,
Shodan
If we’re going to have inflation, then wage driven inflation is the best kind to have and frankly we could probably use a little inflation right about now. But it really sounds like you just need a better job or need to move somewhere you can live on less.