Seriously. If you want to claim that “big pharma” has completely paid off the CDC/FDA to the point where they’re pushing purely in the interest of the pharmaceuticals, you shouldn’t stare at me like a particularly retarded deer in the headlights when I ask you for evidence. You know, that mythical creature that conspiracy theorists ignore whenever it suits their bullshit? It shouldn’t come as a huge shocker that I think you’re a fucking stupid conspiracy theorist when you say “why should I need evidence for that?!”
And saying “it’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s just run-of-the-mill corruption” doesn’t help resolve anything either - you’re claiming that a handful of large corporations are (in secret) throwing enough money at a major regulatory body whose goal it is first and foremost to ensure the welfare of the general public for them to completely abandon their goal in favor of making the pharma companies more money, and that this never comes to light, despite constant regime changes, the countless people in the upper echelons of the regulatory body, and the fact that said regulatory body has actually rejected numerous drugs from major pharmaceutical companies. If you spent more than 10 seconds thinking about it, it would stop making sense.
And of course, this corruption must necessarily extend itself to the multitude of peer-reviewed published papers which the regulatory body leans on - the CDC bases its claims almost entirely on said papers. I guess they’re all just fringe bullshit. Rather than, you know, the best available papers with sound methodologies. You know how you could resolve this question? READING THE FUCKING PAPERS! Which you don’t bother with. After all, “You have your facts and figures from your laptop, I actually know people who got the flu from the flu vaccine!” Which, in terms of sensible statements, ranks up there with “I actually know people who got abducted by aliens” or “I actually know people who were healed by homeopathy”. And pointing out this complete ignorance of basic immunology is a good way to get yelled at.
:smack:
I thought these conversations were bad over facebook. It turns out it’s even worse in person. It’s just disgusting.
Presumably the drugs were rejected because there wasn’t enough bakshish. The rest of your argument relies on the assumption that major regulatory bodies are genuinely interested in the welfare of the general public; why would they be? From the point of view of the government, the general public are just (waves hands). It’s a big money-go-round, the politicians and regulators are drawn from the same pool of people, and nobody wants the money to end.
Well, at least you’re being honest in saying “presumably”. I’m sure that if I asked you for evidence of anything you claim here that you would immediately jump in with it, right? Jesus, what the hell made people so stupidly, self-destructively paranoid? As said in the OP, “Government Agency X is corrupt” is not a fucking axiom. You don’t get to use it as the basis of discussion without proving it. If the premise of your argument is “The CDC and FDA are inherently corrupt”, I’ll respond with “prove it or blow it out your ass”.
If there is any corruption at the Federal Level it is purely in application of limited resources. The EPA can barely keep up with major and minor polluters, the FDA tries to make the drug companies do as much of the legwork as possible, the FCC can barely stop pirate broadcasts, etc.
Every now and then you get a Fed agency that has an agent overenforce on a target not deserving of the attention, and sometimes you get Senators trying to pull off ‘back off’ notices to agents.
But the idea that most agents are taking kickbacks and bribes at the Federal level is rather weak. Most of the agencies have dire consequences for taking bribes and even even not reporting a bribe attempt will get you in trouble. Not that it doesn’t happen, but I’d wager your local departments have 10x the corruption as the Feds do.
This is both ignorant and insulting. My Dad worked for the Feds, and was extremely ethical, almost to a fault. He was well aware the taxpayers were funding his paycheck and made a conscious effort to do the best job he possibly could for them. Many friends and associates also work for the government, and while a few of them are assholes and some of them are time-servers, many have my Dad’s attitude. The majority of government workers take their jobs as seriously as anyone in any other field. Some of them are doing work at lower pay than they would get for comparable work in the private sector. Of course it’s important to keep an eye out for corruption, something that will exist as long as there are governments, but it shouldn’t be assumed as a default.
The problem isn’t so much bribery as it is regulatory capture. A lot of agencies deal with very specialized fields…the FCC with telecommunications policy, the FDA with food safety and pharmaceutical regulation, etc. Obviously, they want to hire qualified people to do that, and you find those qualified people in the industry you’re trying to regulate. And then, at the same time, people tend to go from the agency to the industry. This isn’t, in itself, a bad thing, but it means that the regulatory agencies are shaped by the cultures of the industry they’re regulating, and are made up of people who have the mindset of those industries.
.
There’s also the aspect of how soul-crushing it must be. Here you are, going into this job with the intent of being a good agent and doing the best job you can… And instead you find out that your job is to collect payments from pharmaceutical companies and lie to everyone else. I wouldn’t last a week in a job like that. Well, okay, maybe I would, but I hold most people to a slightly higher standard.
Remember that in the world of CTs everyone is easily and painlessly corrupted by waving a few nickles under their nose. Only they, the conspiracy revealers, consider themselves to be the world’s only honest men.
Point taken. I’m not saying that there aren’t vast intractable problems with the regulatory system, or any regulatory system. Nor am I saying there aren’t scandals and corruption, as in the VA debacle. I just object to the blanked condemnation the OP describes, which is all too common in discussions of Government, and, IMO, contributes to the toxic atmosphere surrounding all political discourse.
(Also, since I made it personal in my last post, I should mention that my Father wasn’t involved in any regulatory agency, but was in the Foreign Service.)
They’re agog that you require “evidence” for something that’s so self-evident and clear.
They forget that Congresspeople and “run of the mill” government officials operate on entirely different levels, especially on the process of how they get into their job (key in the visible corruptive influence seen in Congress).
I think actually corrupt “I’ll take this bribe to do what you want, or will approve Pfeizer drugs so they’ll give me a job” people are enormously rare, and get found out and prosecuted fairly quickly. (People who are just putting time in because they have 2 more years till they can retire, so they’re just going to do their time, pretend to work, and goof off are probably more common.)
Problems with regulatory systems are almost never due to individual misconduct, but much more often due to systemic problems (like the whole regulatory capture thing), budgetary problems (there’s not always enough money available to do everything you’re supposed to), or political interference (the agency is getting pressure from the appointed people at the top or the legislature or governor/president/whoever to Solve This Problem, because the governor/President/whoever has made it one of his priorities, and doesn’t care about the practicalities of the issue.) But individual malfeasance is pretty rare, and most people in government are in it because they care about it.
I work for a regulatory agency. One day while readying a boat for sampling I had some local come up and start talking about how I’m in the pay of industry and how I let them pollute as much as they want. I laughed and said I wish someone would be willing to bribe me, but it turns out they just don’t care what I do. He was miffed and walked away.
The last hydroelectric permit I worked on all the Industry folks had these cool jackets. But could I get one? No way. I mean, I totally would have let them slide on that dissolved oxygen survey for a jacket with “Markland Reliscensing Project” on it!
Seriously, my experience with Industry is that all they want is for me to be clear about their regulatory requirements so they can meet them and make money. And they sure aren’t going to waste money bribing people.
Personally I’m always impressed that the CT’s hold government employees to a higher standard than the corporations *actively *working to corrupt them. I’m pretty sure they didn’t actually intend to set it up that way.
BPC why do you only hang around with retarded people? Pretty much all your pit threads are about your retarded friends. Maybe it’s time to get non-retarded friends.
You don’t hear about the non-retarded ones because I don’t complain about them. I’ve gradually been culling the retards from my shortlist, but this is what happens when you grow up raised by hippies - most of your old friends from your childhood end up crunchier than gravel.
I grew up, not raised by hippies, but oddly enough around my ultra-conservative military father’s hippie friends*. I know more than a few loons such as those you mention; however, my entire list of such acquaintances is certainly far smaller than your “short” list.
*Note: I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being a hippie. It’s the loons among them that are objectionable.
