I like the series Death Note. I think this is my 4th time watching it. However, one episode has always bothered me, namely episode 7. I feel that Naomi is too easily fooled by Light/Kira. To summarize, Naomi has figured out that:
1 - Kira can kill by means other than a heart attack; and,
2 - Kira was on the bus with Raye Pember.
She strongly suspects that her fiance was placed into a position where he was forced to show Kira his ID. She is, of course, correct. She wants to talk to the Kira Task Force about what she’s discovered.
Light (Kira) talks to her and decides to kill her. He writes her name down on a sheet from the Death Note and … nothing happens. She’s used an alias! Oh noes!
Utimately, Light pretends to be a member of the Kira Task Force and offers for her to join. All he needs to see is some ID. And this is where I feel that it falls apart. He doesn’t really offer a compelling reason why he needs ID. She’s being so cautious it seems implausible that she would suddenly show ID. Just a few moments ago she even says, that she finds everything he says to be great but she really wants to talk to the police one more time first.
Naomi doesn’t strike me as the sort of person fooled by this.
Now of course it all happens because the writer says so. But are then any fans of the series that have any thoughts?
Note: I’ve never read the manga and I’m ok with spoilers from the manga if it helps explain this. So I guess a warning to others, there are some possible manga spoilers from future posts.
I read the manga years ago, but haven’t seen the series.
Since this is the first post, I’ll put this in the Spoiler box. But honestly, those unfamiliar with the series should consider stopping here. [spoiler]I don’t see a problem. Light had fast talk/ smooth talk at his end. Moreover, IIRC Naomi had not yet figured out that if the killer knows your name, he can kill you. At least not in such stark terms.
I mean I can imagine it being a bad idea if the killer knows your name and address. But Light’s modus operandi is more direct than any reasonable person would imagine, unless they were thinking very very methodically. Like L. [/spoiler]
I really should read the manga sometime. You raise a good point with that she might not have figured out that Kira needs a name. In the anime, she says “Kira set up that bus jacking … in order to obtain the identities of the FBI agents.” Plus to me, it is her use of an alias (at least in the series) that makes me think she is very suspicious of giving out an identity. And yet she does. It is always jarring for me because it seems so out of character from everything she seems to believe.
It is a character error and so not necessarily a flaw in the writing. I’ve always imagined that perhaps she was overwhelmed by the possibility of working with L again and catching Raye’s murderer.
In more of a general conversation (rather than start a new thread). What I like about Death Note, is how flawed Light’s plans are. Sometimes he plans brilliantly, but he makes quite a few mistakes that work out for him. I find in many similar types of shows the brilliant genius is able to plan far too well, to the point of being unbelievable. It is a fine line and I find that Death Note doesn’t cross this line too much (well maybe a bit in the 2nd half of the series).
Killing Raye Pember is definitely one of the biggest mistakes that Light makes. Of course, he has no way of knowing that Raye is going to report that there is nothing suspicious. It is Light’s paranoia, and a a need to enact righteous judgment on those who oppose him that makes him kill Raye, and it pretty much is his undoing. L becomes fixated on Light because of the death of Raye Pember and Naomi Misora. If Light lets Raye go, he might never have been caught, or certainly things would have turned out very differently.
I have read the manga, but I don’t think there are any especially new insights into Naomi from it (the manga does provide some additional material that the second series of the anime either dropped or glossed over though, which I remember liking). It has been a long time since I have watched or read either one, but yeah I think it is just Light being charming and believable that got her to trust him.
But I too really like Death Note, in all of its incarnations (even the Japanese live action movies do something different with the rules that is completely consistent with the universe but that was never explored in either the manga or anime, if I remember correctly).
Can’t contribute to the discussion - just want to say I saw Death Note a few years ago and really enjoyed it. I didn’t recall feeling there was anything happening that didn’t fit into the World that was built for the story.
If you like surreal Japanese stuff, I strongly recommend you check out books by Haruki Murakami. His is very well regarded - people discuss his impending Nobel regularly - and he writes different types of books. But three are similar in their tone of a surreal world where a nameless narrator is trying to make sense of strange goings on unfolding around them.
The books are not related, but similar in tone and really great reads:
A Wild Sheep Chase
Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World
Kafka on the Shore
He wrote another book that was a bestseller a few years ago, 1Q84, and while it has the same overall tone, wasn’t nearly as good as the other three.
Well the most realistic scenario would be have Light make only 1 mistake: L would successfully trap him into revealing his general location in Japan, but after that Light would keep his head down. He certainly wouldn’t telegraph that he knows about the internal workings of the police unit. But the author needed a way to bring Light and L together, and I think he did a decent job of that.
Incidentally, both the author Tsugumi Ohba and the artist Takeshi Obata are brilliant: it’s worth seeking out their other works. Ohba understands suspense, which is basically having the reader wonder what will happen next. Obata’s talents are a little more complex. Individual panels are competent, but not exactly awe inspiring. His effect is cumulative: he is a master of composition, pacing and conveying utter bafflement.
Obata has illustrated Hikari No Go, a manga about playing the game Go, Death Note, a detective manga with more cat and mouse maneuvering than action and Bakuman, a manga about creating manga. Not a lot physical action in those works, or rather the action is mental and situational. Yet they are pretty suspenseful. This sort of artistic talent is rare, which probably why comics focus on fighting so much.
ETA: Incidentally, I didn’t like the very first chapter of Death Note. I suggest sticking with it into the 2nd volume.
That’s one of the things I love about Death Note. As fictional characters go, Light and L both feel potential real to me. Light simply isn’t the sort of person that can let it go. His actions are pretty consistent with the personality revealed to us. Light’s biggest drawback is his ego. He believes that he is better that L, and he is very wrong. Even L’s final attack capitalizes on Light’s errors (the 13 Day rule). He even knows in advance that the trap must succeed and confirm Light as Kira, and therefore either he or Kira must go. I’m up to episode 34 now. A great show and even after watching it for the 3rd or 4th time, I somehow know I’ll watch it again someday.
I’m a little embarrassed to say that I noticed a little thing on this viewing I had never noticed before. At one point Meesa says “I cannot imagine living in a world without Light” and L replies “Yes, it would be quite dark.” For some reason, I never caught the double meaning. It always just heard the sad meaning, but not the it would be physically dark with light (small l). That gave me a good laugh.
I don’t want to hijack this too much BeepKillBeep, but the suggestions that Measure for Measure made really made me wonder about animes/manga similar to Death Note. I know Measure for Measure was going with what the creators had also did, but I wondered if there was more of the “cat and mouse” genre he mentioned, or possibly other things about it.
I know that when I first watched Death Note the anime Code: Geass was going around as being similar to Death Note, which I very much enjoyed but I don’t know how similar it actually is. Did you ever see that one, BeepKillBeep, or do you or anyone else have any other suggestions on Death Note similarities? (again, I apologize for any hijacking and I can make my own thread if necessary).
There is a fair amount of detective manga, but in my experience it has nowhere near the same amount of suspense. It can be fun, but I wouldn’t call it suspenseful.
Over at Amazon Prime, the anime Kabaneri Of The Iron Fortress is being simulcast with subtitles. It’s exciting and suspenseful. It’s not cerebral at all though: basically the characters are fighting zombies. So that’s not comparable either.
The manga “All You Need is Kill” is suspenseful and works through a puzzle. It is drawn by Takeshi Obata. I would dip into other works by the two mangaka.
Over at Them Anime, a recommended anime review website, they list Neon Genesis Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain and Detective Conan as comparable works. I’m a fan of NGE, but it has no cat and mouse. Not sure why it made the comparison list.* (IMO, it’s highly culturally significant as it inspired other producers of anime television series to pursue more challenging themes. While flawed in many many ways, I consider it a great artistic work of the 20th century. With fighting robots.)
Serial Experiments Lain is a head trip. I liked it though I don’t think it’s as smart as it thinks it is. I haven’t seen Detective Conan.
One thing I like about manga and anime is their evil characters usually have recognizably not-purely-evil motivations. The other aspect is that they can kill major characters and, yes, give a series an actual ending. So the whole series can follow a story arc rather than basically staying static throughout the entire run. Yes, that means your favorite show can end. But hey, just because your character died, doesn’t imply that the writer, director and artists have died. They can go on and do other things!
Ok, ok, I do know why. It made the comparison list because it’s great and really there are no comparable works to Death Note.
I don’t mind the hijack at all (I don’t own the thread). I don’t think the original question was going to go anywhere. However, maybe to get more people involved what I’m going to do is start a new thread with a more general subject line.
I think I may have seen 1-4 eps of the Death Note anime a long time ago. I haven’t bothered with it, partly to keep the manga experience pristine. Reading the manga as a serial was quite a ride.
My copies, alas, are now in storage. I visited an online source, but page loads were slow. One thing I noticed though was that as a reader I felt immersed in Light’s situation. There’s someone who has pieced quite a bit of the murder together and he really doesn’t want her to come in contact with the task force. And she’s on her way right now. Quick Light! Think of something! Meanwhile there’s creature who looks vaguely like Ronald Reagan hovering over his shoulder and giggling.
In other words, suspense permits misdirection.
I wonder whether the author lampshaded this. Ryuk credited Light’s success to women always falling for the, “It’s fate” line, which frankly says more about Ryuk than it does about human nature.
Generally speaking, most works of art involve tradeoffs. Generally decent manga respects the characters involved at least, though it often relies on improbable circumstances. To which most Japanese readers shrug and say, “Manga”: it is a pulp medium after all.
Suspense: Monster by Naoki Urasawa. Surgeon saves boy’s life, only to later discover he is a dangerous psychopath. The hunt is on! (I guess this would have some cat and mouse).
Black Jack: Action physician by Osamu Tezuka. Disfigured surgeon travels world treating those who nobody else can - for a price!
Master Keaton: Action insurance investigator by Naoki Urasawa. Company men are not, I repeat not! boring: this guy used to work for the SAS!
A little farther afield we have Division Chief Kosaku Shima by Kenshi Hirokane. Salaryman travels the world making moral and profitable decisions. “I was sent to this small cicy in Shizuoka for an extended business trip. A special meeting of shareholders that would decide the proxy battle was scheduled for January 6 of the new year. About a month away.” Jason Thompson gives it 2 1/2 stars.
I haven’t seen the anime Monster, but I see from wiki it got raves though the ending disappointed a little. I’m guessing that this is the anime that Death Note fans are looking for.
