Is your science hard, or are you just glad to see me?
What I have found is that many of these people place a great deal of importance in what they believe. It all starts with their beliefs, and facts are useful only to the extent that they confirm those beliefs.
And they will state this outright: For many, “I don’t believe in global warming.” is not a shorthand way of saying that they don’t accept the evidence, it is an admission that they think that their personal belief has a bearing on the matter. If more people would just join them in their belief, the problem would be solved…because that is what happens when you believe hard enough.
Like others have said, often people don’t have a handle on their own level of ignorance. It can be very frustrating trying to argue with someone who just won’t listen to anything that runs counter to their prejudices. Sometimes you just can’t get through to them at all, but it can be worthwhile to get your points across for the benefit of the peanut gallery.
Rather than getting stuck debating denialists and the arrogantly ignorant (yes, I know there’s overlap), the best strategy is to promote critical thinking before sloppiness becomes an ingrained trait, i.e. in childhood.
I’d have modules or even separate courses on how to evaluate scientific claims and fallacious debate tactics as early as 6th grade, with coursework to expand on these principles in high school and college. Homework could be as simple as citing a fallacy and asking students to find examples of it on the Internet. Students in high school and college are sophisticated enough to be taught the strengths and weaknesses of various kinds of research, from case reports to systematic reviews of scientific literature. The lessons they learn would also be applicable to other spheres, such as politics.
I have a couple friends I love dearly, but they believe HAARP is causing the earthquakes and storms we have been having lately 
not to mention they believe in all sorts of conspiracy theories. sigh
How, exactly, do they think a bunch of old people are causing earthquakes? :dubious:
Generally I stick with that, but I’ve had success with phouka’s method, mostly by using extraordinarily roundabout arguments in convincing my mother of things.
I mostly ignore the anti-science people I come across, but I still get annoyed by people who make claims and cite reputable, peer-reviewed papers that do not say what they think they do. I’m not sure exactly how to go about convincing people that they really didn’t understand what they read, though.
I’m cracking up.
While I can’t argue about the huge volume of scientific ignorance out there, I think there is an even larger problem – language. You can see it everywhere on these boards – people arguing about two different things as if they are the same, and even if they eventually realize it, start arguing about the meaning of words rather than find a common vocabulary to advance the original discussion. Or – they insist on repeating their own points as if they address the issues raised by the other posters. It’s as if they’re just saying, “La la la…”.
This is generally not a problem of illiteracy or ignorance. It is a problem of… attitude, or stupidity, or maliciousness.
Conversing with scientific illiterates makes me scared and angry!
In another thread, I mentioned my cousin, who, upon seeing an illustration of the skeleton of a Kzinti – a fictional alien in a SF novel! – shrieked, “That’s evolution! I don’t believe in that!”
Back in my college days (I won’t say how long ago, but there have been many additions to the periodic table of the elements in the intervening years) many of my classmates fervently believed that men had one rib fewer than women. Any time they saw a mounted and wired skeleton in a biology lab, with all 24 ribs, they’d say, “Well, that one was obviously a woman.”
Trinopus (scared, angry, and a little nauseated…)
Naively I’d think the pig headed ignorant people should see science as some sort of true religion that mysteriously produces stunning magical artifacts. So if their priests decree something it must be true. Especially the older generations since they’ve been exposed to even more of its material advances.
I mean, how does it work in their heads? Just point to a computer, a cell phone, or pay money to step into a metal tube that flies across the world at several hundreds of miles an hour. Stupid compartmentalized brains…
Brilliant. Depressing, but brilliant.
Something that I find myself thinking whenever I encounter these types of situations…
“Just because you’ve never heard of it does not mean that it doesn’t exist or that it isn’t true. Your inability to understand something does not mean someone else is unable to understand it; they likely are someone you should be listening to instead of dismissing when talking about this topic. Some things take more than a glance at wikipedia to truly understand. Likewise, just because you don’t deal with a particular concept in everyday life does not mean it isn’t useful.”
I think I know that forum (not gonna name it). I saw that thead and said to myself,
“Self I’m not in the mood to feign interest in bullshit or walk on eggshells around the New Agers and “christian” believers or try to pretend I respect their crap” this time, fvck 'em".
It was probably a smart decision on my part.
? HAARP is a research project shooting electricity skyward to study the effects in the electrical happenings in the various levels of the atmosphere [more or less]. How do you get old people out of High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program?
Back in the mid 80s I had a teacher that tried to teach us this. I wasn’t in a Christian school or anything like that either; this was a public county school.
I love this. I am totally adopting “I angry-hate you!” as a catchphrase (I promise to try to only use it ironically)
You know what’s especially bad? Willfully ignorant right-wingers like Clothahump who act like they’re the smartest shits in the world in regards to economic policy, but do not understand how governments can create wealth or demand. But what’s worse than even the illiteracy is the inevitable degree of superiority with which these posters post; as if anyone who doesn’t understand their blatantly false financial ideals is a fucking moron. No, that’s not true. Sorry. :mad: