Debunking Atkins

First off, the Atkins diet works. Why then does it need to be debunked?

For the same reason the Beverly Hills Diet needed to be debunked, or the all ice cream diet needs to be debunked.

Unbalanced, fad and crash diets give you weight loss at a cost.

The first cost of the Atkins diet is the dannger of poor nutrition, and lower energy levels. Runner’s World conducted a study in their October issue wherein they placed half of a pool of runner’s on the Atkins diet, and at intervals measured their performance on a treadmill against a control group. The Atkins runners reported a lower energy level, didn’t feel as good, and this was confirmed by a degradation in their ability to run. Conclusion, the Atkins diet saps your energy. More important is the danger nutritionally. A high fat diet can severe health consequences long-term, and the long-term effects of the Atkins diet are not known, but based on what we do know about nutrition, they are surely not good.

The diet is nothing new. Back in the 1800s William Banting published a diet pamphlet documenting a new diet he developed with his physician. He cut out all the bread and vegetables, but ate meat and Sherry.

According to Dr. Liz Applegate, who’s made a study of this and other fad diets, the underlying assumption was that Carbs make you fat. This underlying assumption colored nutritional thinking for the next 100 years or so. If you remember looking at old movies or hearing your grandfather tell you about the cholesterol mess that was commonly consumed as a “healthy diet” up until the 1970s you may remember that we Americans aren’t exactly new to the concept of a high fat diet.

In the 1980s some highly publicized and well-documented studies began to teach people that fat was fattening. Gotta cut fat! People started eating more carbs and less fat. And as people sucked down those bagels and fat-free snacks they wondered why they gain weight.

The pendulum had slid the other way.

Now it’s sliding back, and carbs are taking the blame again.

Dr. Applegate says:

Fat has twice as many calories per gram as carbohydrate. The Atkins diet works in spite of this fact because the fats that we eat tend to be more filling and cloying than the carbs we have gotten used to. Sweets and snacks like pretzels and low fat cookies can actually trigger the hunger response becasue they are absorbed so quickly. That hamburger will likely be sitting in your stomach for a long time.

The answer is that not all carbs (just like not all foods,) are good for weight loss. Fruits vegetables and whole grain breads are high in fiber, are not so quickly absorbed and are going to give you that same lasting full feeling as a hamburger.

Not all carbs are equal. Dr. Applegate cites things like white bread, plain pasta, sugary drinks and fat free treats as examples of bad carbs, and vegetables whole grains, beans and fruits as good carbs.

The same is true with high fat foods. Monounsaturated fats like those found in olive oil and fish are good for you. The saturated and trans fats (dairy products, meats, and vegetable oils) that clog your arteries and give you heart disease.

Then too, the Atkins diet works for another reason. The Ice Cream diet factor. Go on an all ice cream diet, and you will lose weight. This will happen because you get sick of ice cream and don’t want it as much.

You get the exact same effect with the Atkins diet and its high-fat content foods.

Dieting alone is rarely a permanent weight loss solution. As one diets one loses fat and muscle mass. At some point one goes off the diet, and now one has less muscle to support. That means when you’re done dieting your body needs less calories to maintain itself than it did when you started. You gain weight easier. Then, of course you diet again. You lose bone density, muscle mass ligature strength, in short, you lose everything with each swing of the crash diet/weight gain pendulum.

The simple fact has been and always remains that calories are what count. To maintain good health and weight one needs a balanced diet. In reality 50-60% of your daily caloric intake should be carb based to keep you healthy. The remaining 40-50% should be from fats and proteins.

Exercise while you diet, and you will build muscle mass initially, maybe even gain weight. However, it quickly becomes a geometric progression that works for you on the loss side.

The more you exercise the more calories you burn, and the more calories it takes to maintain your muscle mass. The stronger you get the more you can exercise in a given time frame, burning more calories still.

It is a hard thing to get started, to exercise when you’re out of shape. It’s an investment that’s worth making though, as when you do start losing weight, that weight loss will tend to be permanent.

The Atkins diet is just another fad, and maybe a very dangerous one.

For those who want to read more:

http://www.eagle.american.edu/section.cfm/29/7/1568

http://www.drjlgarciam.com/debunking_the_high.htm

http://www.about-obesity.com/html/the-truth-about-fad-diets.php3

http://www.chasefreedom.com/atkinsdiet.html

http://www.chasefreedom.com/atkinsreview.html

http://www.chasefreedom.com/atkinsdietmedical.html

You may notice that thes last three are from the same website. Ther’s also a fourth, the positive review. I’ll include it here for balance:

http://www.chasefreedom.com/atkinsdiet2.html

And here’s Dr. Applegate’s website:

http://www.lizapplegate.com/

She’s into balls now, which are a good way to get started exercising if you’re not in shape.

Howyadoin,

Using runners as a test subject for the Atkins diet may be as valid as advocating carbo-loading before you climb into the car to drive 26 miles to work. People who exercise regularly have metabolic systems that function differently than fat, lazy Type II diabetics like me. It’s no surprise that a low-carb diet provides less immediately available energy, but this quick energy would only be stored as fat anyway.

That aside, I agree that a balanced diet and exercise is the ultimate goal for maintaining a healthy weight. The low-carb concept has been around for about 30 years, and there are no significant studies that point to long-term negative health effects, at least that I’m aware of. With the vested interest of the status quo in protecting their turf, there has been much interest and plenty of opportunity to find a “smoking gun” to invalidate the low-carb concept. I’ve yet to see conclusive evidence that a successful low-carb diet causes more long-term damage than yo-yo weight loss and recovery, for example.

Quoth:
“the long-term effects of the Atkins diet are not known, but based on what we do know about nutrition, they are surely not good”

Again, this is an assumption that I cannot abide. People in the real world, not some group of endorphin junkies, do not think in terms of “nutrition”. If a short term low-carb diet works for them, followed by a transition to healthier eating once one has the psychological reinforcement that enhanced self esteem and self image brings, than let’s not stigmatize it. In a world where people are so desperate to get off the roller coaster that they submit to highly dangerous elective self-mutilation in the form of gastric bypass surgery, let’s not fool ourselves.

Just the cacklings of a corvid…

-Rav

Scylla, I cannot purport to be an expert. But my son, heir and scion of the Elucidator empire, took up this “no carb” thing about a year ago. It is a pain in the butt. Expensive, too, with its reliance on meat. He used to be huge and fat, now he’s merely huge, having lost upwards of 90 lbs. I’ve known entire people who didn’t weigh that much!

So theres something going on here. My suspicion is “diff’rent strokes”, our human digestive systems are not uniform, what works for A will kill B, and we are far from knowing why.

But how is it, if the standard orthodoxyies of diet are true, that the Eskimo thrive for months on a diet of meat and fat, without a fresh vegetable even in memory, much less on the table?

**

Like I said. The diet works.

**

The human digestive system is staggeringly uniform. Under the Atkins diet your son is consuming less calories than he did when he just ate whatever he wanted. He’s losing weight.

I recall that there have been some studies about that, and it’s a combination of adaptation and the fact that they do hurt for their lack of things like vitamin C during those periods.

They’re not thriving, they’re just going downhill very slowly

**

This is not true.

I agree it’s no surprise. Yet it’s not what Atkins claims. And, it doesn’t necessarily get stored as fat. Like any other food, it will depend on how much you’re burning.

Also not true. We have many studies showing a clear link between diets high in saturated and trans fats and such ailments as heart disease, high blood pressure and arterisclerosis.

The yo-yo is about the worst thing you can do to yourself. I agree.

I’m not sure it’s fair to categorize those like me who exercise for health as endorphin junkies, but I’d agree that a lot of health problems occur specifically because people don’t think in terms of “nutrition.”

Not thinkng about nutrition is a stupid way to feed your body.

Who’s stigmatizing? I’m saying it’s not going to work as well as a reasonable program, and will be more prone to yo-yoing.

My point exactly.

Hmmm…

Quoth:

“Metabolism is affected by your body composition. By body composition, I mean the amount of muscle you have versus the amount of fat. Muscle uses more calories to maintain itself than fat. People who are more muscular (and have a lower percentage of body fat) are said to have a higher metabolism than others that are less muscular. For example, let’s say you have two people who are the exact same height and weight. One exercises on a regular basis with weights, in addition to aerobic exercise, and has a low percentage of body fat. The other never exercises and has a higher percentage of body fat. The first person who exercises will have a higher metabolism than the second person. What this basically means is that person #1’s body will use more calories to sustain itself than person #2.”

From http://kirtland.cc.mi.us/~balbachl/meta.htm

Also:
“We have many studies showing a clear link between diets high in saturated and trans fats and such ailments as heart disease, high blood pressure and arterisclerosis”

Please don’t imply that I support a lifetime diet of steak and eggs. What I am proposing is that the use of a short term low-carb diet will prove successful in achieving weight loss. The psychological component of losing weight without resorting to food deprivation is very powerful, and if it is what is needed to get the ball rolling, as it were, we shouldn’t demonize it. All the experts have pontificated, pleaded, cajoled, suggested, prescribed, operated and wrung their hands for years, and all I see is a problem that worsens every day.
Also:
“Not thinkng about nutrition is a stupid way to feed your body.”

Well, not thinking about exercise is a stupid way to live one’s life. Only a fool would suggest otherwise. But we are talking about the same mass of humanity that buys Ab-Masters and all that other dreck. If there is an alternative that works in a short-term role, which will encourage people to seek a more active lifestyle to make use of their newly unencumbered bodies, and therefore have a long-term effect, let’s not dismiss it. After all, what progress has been achieved in the era of the “food pyramid”?

Just the cacklings of a corvid…

-Rav

I checked out some of the OP sites and either ignore the recent study just published on the Atkins diet or are dated.

For example this site, http://www.about-obesity.com/html/the-truth-about-fad-diets.php3

Now this site was last updated in November, 2002. Totally ignores the dramatic finding in the recent study which proves that cholesterol readings are way more favourable on the Atkins diet than normal, the major cause of heart disease.

To many people ignore the French paradox, and insist on the concept that “you are what you eat” and any study which contradicts that axiom must be false. Rubbish.

<nitpick>

Vegetable oils in their normal state have no more saturated fat in them than olive oil does, and have no trans fat.

It’s hydrogenated (or partially hydrogenated) vegetable oils that have trans fat in them. And, incidentally, if anyone ever decided to make partially hydrogenate olive oil, it would have every bit as much trans fat in it as partially hydrogenated soybean and/or cottonseed oil does.

</nitpick>
And calorie-wise, all fats – saturated, trans-unsaturated, cis-unsaturated, mono- or poly-unsaturated, or any combination of the above – have 9 calories per gram. (Similarly, all carbohydrates, whether we’re talking about sugar or oat bran, have 4 calories per gram).

The American Heart Association has serious reservations about the latest study. Read about them here.

Traditionally Eskimos ate only meat and fish. Why didn’t they get scurvy?

How did your sources get the idea that Atkins forbids vegetables, nuts, and whole grains?

Even in the Induction Phase, you eat broccoli, dark green leafy veggies, green beans, cauliflower, alfalfa sprouts, cucumber, bell peppers, radishes, artichoke hearts, asparagus, tomatoes, turnips, okra, collard greens, cabbage, zucchi, pumpkin, and a whole lot more.

After Induction, nuts and whole grains are allowed.

Eskimos also have the one of the shortest, if not the shortest life expectancies of all the earth’s different cultures.

I’m not a nutritionalist, and I take Atkin’s own science with as much as a pinch of salt as the orthodoxy that is being challenged. But I thought I’d give this diet a go in July, and am still enjoying it. I’d just like to give you my anecdotal spiel of the positive effects on me since I began a low-carb diet:[ul][]Loss of 30lbs.[]High energy levels, sustained throughout the day.[]No mid-afternoon slump, during which I could hardly keep my eyes open.[]Immediate cessation of the IBS cymptoms that have plagued and hospitalized me over the past 15 years.I sleep solidly though the night. No more insomnia, and no more waking during the night for a pee.[/ul]I eat plenty of low-glycaemic-index veggies, but I avoid potatoes and rice, as well as white bread and sugar products. I feel better now than I have done for years.

Oh? Cite please.

According to the census web page, Eskimos fall under the Native American category, and have a life expectancy of 72.8 for a male, and 82 years for females. (1999, low series) Compare this to Caucasions: 74.7/80.1 respectively. Not a big difference.
Blacks, non-hispanic- 68.3/75.1.
From here:
http://www.census.gov/population/projections/nation/summary/np-t7-b.pdf

(Perhaps you got this info off vegesource.com or one of its affiliates? You know, the non-vegetarian race MUST live short lifes, because our lifestyle is the only healthy one…blah blah)

I didn’t realize you couldn’t consume other healthy products besides meat, just so long as they were not really a source of carbohydrates. Spinach and celery, for example, are probably eatable in unlimited amounts. If a person is getting their nutrients primarily from food sources, and they are losing weight, I think it might maybe a little bit should probably be considered at least sorta possible that it is ok.

Can anyone show me why it is impossible to get all your vitamins and minerals from Atkins? I don’t want to hear, “Because it is a high-fat diet!” Show me that it restricts foods that prohibit one from acquiring basic nutrients. That will debunk it for me.

I’ve never heard anyone claim that Atkins permits fruits, and there are a lot of nutrients in them that, to the best of my knowledge, aren’t found elsewhere. There was a discussion on this around page 4 of Stoid’s previous thread on low-carb diets.

Here we go again.

You can eat fruit on Atkins.

The initial phase of low-carb is the harshest, but it only lasts 2 weeks. He specifically predicates against it lasting any longer. You then reintroduce moderate amounts of carbs into your diet, up to the point when you hover just out of ketosis. If those carbs happen to be fruit- or veg-based that’s fine.

Please read the book, and then debunk.

I have a medical book showing sources for vitamins and minerals, and almost all of them are contained in MEAT. That’s something you don’t see them put on the labels. IIRC, the only vitamins listed that weren’t found in meat were C, and A (although A vitamin is found in liver). Interestingly, fruit didn’t contain a lot of nutrients, with the exception of bananas for potassium and oranges for vitamin C(also found in green leafy veggies and tomatoes). An apple wasn’t listed on the page at all. This info found in the American Medical Association Family Health Guide. Which makes one wonder why nutrition labels don’t mention all the vitamins found in meat.

Re: the argument that low-carbing results in weight loss merely because one consumes less calories is BUNK. A t-bone steak alone is probably a thousand calories alone(a guess). If your typical Atkins day is sausage and eggs for breakfast, cheese, nuts and meat for lunch, meat and salad or veggies for dinner, and cheese and nuts added throughout the day, heavy cream in your coffee, I challenge anyone on this thread to show that this is a “LOW CALORIE” day. I’ve done Atkins, and my cholesterol levels went DOWN not up. I guess one doesn’t suffer enough losing the weight on Atkins for the food nazis. It couldn’t possibly work if you ain’t going hungry, right?

I’ve read the book.

Obviously there are two different phases of Atkins being referred to in my cites.

Both are low carb. The first is basically no-carb.

Pohjonen:

This is why you shouldn’t guess. A three ounce serving of lean meat is about 160 calories.
http://www.reeusda.gov/ers4/srs-meatdiagrams.pdf

A half pound of Tbone is gonna be about 500 calories.

The initial phase of the Atkins diet is gonna have you 1,200 calories in a day.

The initial Ketosis will make you lose significant water weight as well (while straining your kidneys.)

Unsurprising that your cholesterol went down seeing as you were consuming less calories.

The Ketosis may also give you some mild nausea which some report, resulting in less hunger.

As for not being hungry, consider how much you’d have to stuff yourself with high fiber foods to consume 500 calories.