Got into an argument this morning with someone who believes in all sorts of paranormal and supernatural phenomena and has a certain disdain for skeptics. As support for his absolute belief that ghosts exist, he cited the story of the Ghost of Flight 401. Another co-worker chimed in agreeing that this pretty much establishes that ghosts are real. So of course I went searching the net for the debunking of this story. Snopes has nothing, and I couldn’t find anything in the SD or SDMB archives. All I found were sites like this and this, which accept the story at face value.
Anyone got any counter evidence, other than just “ghosts don’t exist, so this whole thing is ridiculous,” which doesn’t seem to be winning the argument for me?
Do we have any physical evidence at all? Any cockpit voice recordings? Did any of the numerous people who saw these very lifelike and recognizable ghosts think of snapping a picture? Did the ghosts say anything that would have proved unequivocally that they were speaking from beyong the grave?
If this “proof” consists wholly of people saying “I saw the ghosts, too - boy were they lifelike”, I’m afraid it’s not very convincing.
Unfortunately, trying to explain to a true believer that people misremember, misinterpret, exaggerate and lie is a lost cause.
Certainly the crash occurred and certainly it was tragic with 101 people killed.
At least two books were written about the crash. One was a analysis of the crash and the story of the rescue attempt, it doesn’t talk about ghosts at all. The other one talks about the ghosts and was made into a movie for TV.
Everything I saw on-line about ghosts, references the book. I couldn’t find other evidence by itself. The book claims to be ‘heavily researched’ and many people repeat that in their comments and defense of the book.
Simply put, many think the book is true and proof of ghosts and afterlife. A few people think it is all made up, but I didn’t find anyone with any real evidence against the book though.
It would be nice if there were first hand accounts or videos of the people who saw ghosts themselves bu I couldn’t find any. Perhaps they do exist.
For myself, I find a few things questionable.
Most importantly, the author has written many books and almost always on supernatural topics. He paid his bills by writing about UFOs, ghosts and psychic healers.
It seems unlikely to me that they would or could re-use parts from a plane that went into swampland at 227mph. Even non-critical things like an oven. In 1972 I don’t know how it was done, today if a plane crashes the FAA collects every single part of the plane, not the airline.
Why would a ghost need spare parts in order to appear? How are they tied to a coffee maker and why is that reasonable?
The CEO of Pan Am called the book garbage. I can see why he wouldn’t want people to believe his planes were haunted though.
A NY Times reviewer and Mr Fuller got into a ‘verbal spat’ over a different book he wrote about a psychic healer. I read the whole thing and it made me strongly question Mr. Fuller’s credentials and credibility.
an excerpt:
“If Mr. Fuller can believe he is stating a “plain and simple fact” when he describes an operation during which Arigo slices open a woman, drops in a pair of scissors, then watches while the scissors, animated by a mysterious force unknown to science, move by themselves until a malignant tumor is cut out; if he can believe that his collection of miracle tales, unrelieved by a single note of humor or skepticism, is “well-documented” and “immaculately objective,” then his mind-set is so different from mine (or from that of anyone I know) that communication is impossible.”
I find magic scissors that perform surgery by themselves a crazy idea. If Mr. Fuller wrote a book with that in it, for myself, I can’t see him as a credible source.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle believed that Harry Houdini performed some of his stunts by dematerializing himself, despite being told by Houdini himself that that was not the case.
Speaking of mysterious phenomena…It appears that I was the OP of this thread, but I have no recollection of having posted it. I don’t even remember ever having heard this story, or having discussed this or any other paranormal phenomena with co-workers. Highly suspicious…
Excerpts from Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich, Augustinian nun, mystic, visionary stigmatist:
“There are also souls, neither in heaven, purgatory, nor hell, but wandering the earth in trouble and anguish, aiming at something they are bound to perform. They haunt deserted places, ruins, tombs, and the scenes of their past misdeeds. They are spectres.”
“In her youth near their house was a piece of ground where nothing grew. She never crossed it without a shudder and once saw two black shadows wandering about. Her father said that in the Seven-Years War, an innocent Hanoverian soldier had been condemned and executed on that spot. Two enemies were the author of his misfortune. Forcing herself from fear, she went there at night to pray (for him) with arms extended. The second time a horrible phantom in the form of a dog appeared and another time she was lifted up violently as if about to be cast in a ditch. But she renewed confidence in God and exclaimed: " Satan, thou canst not harm me!" and he ceased his attacks. She never saw the two shadows again and from that time all appeared quiet. Compassion knows neither time nor space.”
There is an almost infinite number of stories out there to be told about ghosts.
Unfortunately, the amount of evidence to support any of these stories is almost infinitely non-existent.
