december, Where does anything that Makedon says suggest that he’s against the map of Europe? Sorry, Big D., but I think that you’re the one having problems keeping in touch with reality.
**Truth Seeker **:“I could toss out any number specific examples of bad, even embarrasing, feminist scholarship. While I don’t believe it would be productive, I can do so, if you like.”
The problem is that so far you haven’t show any specific examples of feminist scholarship. The appearance is of someone making some very strong claims without any substantive familiarity.
"What I have said is that there is a climate of acceptance of bad scholarship that damages the credibility of the entire field. "
And what I have said is that I disagree–although I’m not sure what is meant here by “the entire field.” Is your target women studies? feminist scholarship wherever it happens to be practiced? sciences studies whether practiced by feminists or others? all of academia? It’s simply not clear.
In the areas within the humanities I know best there are now vibrant debates and discussions going on; many precisely to do with how to integrate the best insights from postmodernism with what is most desirable in the humanist paradigm. I think, depending on your interests, you would find this work rewarding. I know that I do.
““How do you tell the difference between valid studies, junk studies, tripe, and misandry?” Your answer seems to be that there is no junk, tripe or misandry so there is no need to try and tell the difference.”
Not in the least. I’ve said more than once that I have many bones to pick: on grounds style, content or both. My proviso was that my criticisms aren’t excluisvely aimed at feminist work.
Listen, academia tends towards polemics, particularly in the humanities where so much depends on interpretation. I tried to find (but couldn’t) an amusing quotation from Max Weber in which he claims that the great majority of his colleagues are doing useful, dreadful work (c. 1900).
Methods of judging between the valid and the invalid depend on one’s field. In history one can challenge an argument both on evidentiary and logical grounds; in philosophy it’s mainly the latter. In the social sciences much depends, I believe, on the reproducbility of one’s results.
“Just so you don’t think I’m making it up, some of your colleagues do argue for a feminist physics. Here’s an illustrative excerpt from a description of one women’s studies course.”
Thanks, Truth Seeker, for posting that interesting link to the philosophy offerings at Union College. What a wonderful variety of offerings! While searching for the course in question, I came across at least ten courses I’d like to sit in on: philosophy of mind, philosophy of law, science and evidence, Eastern philosophy. There are dozens of courses here, about 3 of which are devoted to issues of gender.
One of them–the one you cited–is a special topics course which mentions “feminist physics” as an example of the topics to be considered. Now we have no idea from this description how that topic is handled, and sitll less what those who call for a “feminist physics” have to say.
You seem to assume that a feminist physics is necessarily risible. Perhaps you are right. I don’t know enough about physics in toto to begin to extrapolate what feminists might have to say about it. But I cannot simply assume that it is risible; nor is it clear from this description that if it is dubious that its dubiousness isn’t pointed out by the instructor of this course. I often teach readings that I don’t entirely agree with: this gives students more space for some critical thinking of their own; they can say, she doesn’t entirely buy this, do I?
To my non-expert eye the philosophy department at Union looks great, and I have no reason, without specific evidence to the contrary, to believe than any particular course would be substandard.
"Obviously, I agree with your affirmation that an objective world view is possible in some areas. As you classify yourself as a feminist in the liberal tradition, I’m not surprised that you hold to this. "
Some clarification here. I didn’t say that “an objective world view is possible in some areas.” I agreed with you that some things in the world aren’t culturally constructed. Looking back I can see how the misunderstanding arose. Let me explain then. I agree that there are physical processes that are readily subject to empirical analysis: e.g., the boiling point of water, the color of the sky, and yes, december, the physical location of Switzerland, etc. etc., etc.
However, proof of one’s “objective worldview” doesn’t necessarily follow from this. For example, one might say: it is undisputable that the sky is blue; on the same empirical grounds it is undisputable that economic activities are guided by an invisible hand.
Both claims are drawn on reported observations about the material world; but the second is much more debatable than the first. Now I have argued in other threads that Adam Smith’s beliefs have been distorted, that many who today subscribe to neo-liberal economic dogmas are, in effect, fundamentalists whose beliefs are founded on a quasi-religious belief in the free market, on faulty assumptions about human behavior, and on an incomplete reading of Smith and others.
In truth I believe my position is more objective. But those who disagree will typically believe that their view of the matter is more objective. Do I occupy the same worldview as them?
Try telling someone who is deeply religious that their worldview isn’t as objective as your own.
That doesn’t mean that I just toss up my hands and say, Oh it’s all relative anyway. On the contrary, it means I try harder and harder to put across the claims for my position. (Perhaps you know what I mean
).
" Women’s studies is not about science studies?!? That is certainly a revelation to a great many feminist academics!"
Really who?
I’d guess–just a guess mind you–that fewer than 5% of women studies faculty members are doing science studies. OTOH, I’d guess–just a guess mind you–that more than 50% of people doing science studies are interested in gender issues.
There’s alot of stuff going on, Truth Seeker!
Back to the feminist political philosopher in the Yale Journal of Criticism:
“How can you assume that she actually only means “other non-science areas?” Is she unaware of radical perspectivism’s attack on scientific objectivity? Is she simply being sloppy? Perhaps she thought, “they like controversy in their journal, so why bother spelling out the qualifications?”. How can we tell?”
We can tell by reading the article! (Fall 1999, Vol. 12. No. 2) The excerpt is part of a very specific set of arguments about multiculturalism and liberal political theory. There is no discussion of science whatever.
“In its extreme form, [the postmodernist position] makes vigorous enquiry impossible and even pointless.”
I know that you feel this way, but please provide an example of a reputable feminist scholar engaged in such extremism.
“But you do admit, don’t you, that some feminist academics do not find radical perspectivism ridiculous when applied to science.”
I don’t feel as though I can offer an informed opinion here. Other than Harraway I don’t know any feminist science studies; I also don’t know what other feminist scholars think about these works. I also think there are postmodernist analyses of science that aren’t “ridiculous”.
Let’s take a very famous and influential example (though not a feminist one): Michel Foucault’s History of Sexuality. Foucault provides a very unorthodox view of the human and medical sciences (e.g., psychology, sexology) as they arose over the course of the nineteenth century. He argues that these exerted a profound influence over the way people think and behave. As many have argued, and as I agree, Foucault goes too far and, in doing so, deprives human beings of the potential for critical thinking.
On the other hand, reading his work is illuminating. On every page I find thought-provoking claims alongside claims I would tend to reject. But I do not find the book in the least ridiculous. Now, for a while Foucault was hugely influential and sometimes his ideas were applied reflexively. Sometimes that resulted in derivative scholarship that I could have lived without. But, IME, that happens less and less.
“For example, many feminist academics are willing to accept story as “evidence” for a proposition. Moreover, the validity of personal narrative cannot easily be challenged as one person’s experiences and perspective are just as valid as anyone else’s This fosters a climate where “evidence” cannot be weighed but must simply be accepted and where criticism becomes stigmatized as rudeness.”
The problem is that I don’t recognize this bind. If results aren’t reproducible, then they aren’t reproducible.
Personal narratives can be interesting in their own right. If someone is making large claims based on such narratives then the claims themselves can be questioned and tested. That is my understanding of the social sciences (limited though it is). In my field people do not fear being stigmatized as rude: they sometimes passionately disagree, in writing, at conferences, etc.
" Do you feel a bit foolish for misparaphrasing the article on which you rely? Or do you not see a difference between more useful/less useful and right/wrong?"
I don’t believe that I did misparaphrase. Of course I see a difference between “less useful” and wrong: but in the matter of liberal political theory, with so much room for debate, it’s not likely to be a matter of right or wrong.
Speaking for myself, I would say that postmodernism–defined as a large body of philosophical ideas with roots back to the nineteenth century–has more and less useful aspects depending on where and how it is applied. An example: Jean Baudrillard’s postmodern philosophy which I think was brilliantly adopted for a popular audience by the people who made The Matrix.
Right and wrong? It’s wrong to make assumptions about things you haven’t read. It’s wrong to close your mind to new ideas. It’s right to consider a position carefully before rejecting it out of hand. That’s what objectivity means to me.
“I have no way of checking your sources absent a link.”
Do you have internet access through a university or college library? If so you can probably read articles from YJC online. I can provide the link if you like, but you won’t be able to open it. A first-rate public library will probably also have that journal.
** “What makes you think I’m male?”**
Actually, only one of my questions (the ex-husband) makes that assumption. There are reasons why I’m more prone to think you’re male than female, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on either, I assure you.
" More to the point, why is my background at all relevant? It isn’t, only my ideas are relevant, unless, of course, you subscribe to radical perspectivism. In that case, my background is one of the most relevant things about me."
Your background would be considered a relevant context for your ideas in any number of traditional social-scientific disciplines including sociology, anthropology, and psychology.
As it happens, your ideas–as I deem them–are distorted, inaccurate, riddled with inconsistency, and based on almost no factual evidence whatever. You appear to have an axe to grind. That’s the only “background” that interests me at present.