Thank you, much appreciated.
I don’t think there is a right answer here, but I will say what we have done in similar circumstances. Our dogs have been very much like members of the family, so seeing their health and quality of life in decline is painful. Our first dog lived to 15. She was super active. Toward the end of her life she developed a tumor on her shoulder. The vet said we could amputate the leg, but at that age it seemed useless, so we decided not to. The tumor grew to the point it was quite visible and she had a hard time getting comfortable, and would roam around the house at night. She would also jump up from sleep, like something poked her - I assumed it was the pain from the tumor. Walks were very brief, and finally she was not able to get up and down the stairs without help, so we knew it was time. Easily one of the most painful days of my life, but she was suffering and there was no more anyone could do for her.
Our current dog had a tumor develop on his larynx a couple of years ago at age 6. The vets presented several options (all expensive), but told us that it would eventually constrict his breathing, and he would probably die of it in less than a year, at the rate the tumor was going. I did not want him to strangle, so we opted for radiation therapy, as the surgery seemed too invasive for that area. He had once a week sessions for 18 weeks, where he was fully sedated for the procedure. I thought those treatments would eventually kill him the way he reacted to the sedation. We also risked disfiguring his skin around the neck. They told us he may get 1-3 years after the treatments, but less than a year without. Happy to report he is still with us, and only lost the outer coat of fur around his neck, and no scarring.
I am sorry you have to decide this - I know it is not easy.
What’s the recovery time on her amputation? I’ve never had a dog that lost a limb. I know that some dogs do just fine, but I assume there’s a recovery process. If learning to walk on three legs + months of chemo is going to take up most of her next year … I’d have to let her go. I know it’s hard, but I couldn’t let her last years be a struggle.
I’m sorry. It’s going to hurt - but at least she won’t be hurting, too.
I had a greyhound with the exact same diagnosis back in the 90s. The vet told us that we could do a high level amputation but if the tumor had spread there was very little hope.
We ran some tests and found two more tumors in one of his lungs. We let him go on as long as possible - I ate pizza and hamburgers with him to the disgust of the other dog - and when he seemed in too much pain we put him down.
Think hard about quality of life for the dog.
I have to comment on this. Animal chemo is very different from human chemo. I lost my beloved cat Paris a few months ago, after his life was extended by a year of chemo. He had cancer in multiple organs, starting with his pancreas, and his belly was swollen because his organs weren’t draining properly. I had to take him to the oncologist once a month for his chemo, and give him three pills a day. He remained active and playful and affectionate, with no signs that he was aware how sick he was. It was only at the end, when the medications stopped working, that he was noticeably sick. But the meds added a blessed year to his life.
My 11 year old Lab developed cancer in his front leg in 2016. He went from being a happy, frisky fellow to limping, then walking on three legs, then to not being able to walk more then five feet without collapsing from exhaustion in just nine months. He lay down on Christmas day that year and never got back up. I emailed the vet, and she came early the next morning and put him down. I regret not having put him to sleep a couple of months sooner. I could have spared him so much misery. He lost a great deal of weight, he was constantly exhausted, and lost interest in food. I spent most of Christmas night just lying next to him on the floor, petting him and comforting him, and telling him soon his pain would be gone. I’m crying right now as I’m writing this.
If his prognosis isn’t that good, please consider putting him out of his misery sooner rather than later.
Show mercy.
Put her to sleep, and be there for her, when you do.
It’s hard, but it comes with owning a dog.
Oh god, yes. The worst part about caring for a sick and/or aging pet is making that decision, making that call. Absolute agony. Towards the very end I hoped every morning to wake up and find she had passed on her own. It’s only so agonizing because you love them so much.
I’ve had animals all of my 67 year-old life. I absolutely hate this argument. We have a contract with our little friends. Treat them as well as you can, and help them go as painlessly as possible at the end, if you can. I know someone who went for amputation, and it’s worked for a few years. But only at great expense, hardship and a lot of fucking pain. For everyone involved. Especially the pooch in question. She’s at the end of her life. Make her as comfortable as possible. But I would not even question not putting her through what she has to endure because you can’t stand to see her go.
Wow, just wow. Thank you for all that info.
That is great to hear. I have read blogs about greyhounds who continue to thrive after losing a rear leg, but it still is worrisome. She has no problem running with three legs, it is slow walking, going up steps, getting up, and laying down that are problematic.
What benefit does an accomplished surgeon bring? My understanding is that it is something most vets can do.
My vet recommended I have it done at a dedicated hospital and suggested the same surgeon who mended my dog’s leg years ago. That doctor is also an oncologist, but her practice is both relatively expensive and a bit further away.
They did x-ray the lungs and did not see anything. If they had, the recommendation would have been euthanasia.
That is good to know. It sounds like chemo in and of itself is not the major hassle it is with people. It is the loss of a leg and residual pain that are the major quality of life issues.
It sounds like you have an idea of how things might be for her without the leg if she isn’t using it much right now. Watching her now, it’s up to you to decide if you think that’s a good quality enough life for her. As you know, when these big dogs get older, they lose strength in the rear legs, and she’s only going to have one to do all that work. Some dogs at 11 would be OK with this, and others, not so much.
Once the pain of the surgery is over, there won’t be any pain from the tumor in the limb, which is a good thing. Osteo is very painful.
As far as choosing someone to do the operation, that’s pretty much just like in people - you want someone who does this all the time, and is good at it. You also want a vet practice that is responsive and will take good care of your pup. It will usually be a couple of days until the dog can come home after a surgery like this, and you want them in good hands.
I’m sorry you have to decide this.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. Only you can know what’s right for her, but I’ll try to tell you how I’d think it through, for what it’s worth.
Dogs live in the moment, and there is no way to tell them “This treatment will only last 6 weeks” or “This leg will heal up in a month.” In the moment their whole reality is the pain and limitation. While they don’t suffer the understanding and fear of death the way that we do, they also don’t understand the treatment process.
Please don’t misunderstand, just a couple of years ago I spent thousands to save CeltDog’s foot. But he was young, and vital, and otherwise in perfect health. I totally get the priorities you are juggling.
The poor pup sounds like she’s a tough dog, and has been suffering far more than you could have known. And that is what would be making my mind up to let her go. I suppose it’s almost equally an argument that she’s a fighter and would respond well to treatment, but I don’t think so. To my mind, keeping an animal in pain, and letting them suffer through long-term treatments they can’t possibly comprehend just isn’t fair.
The greyhound lifespan is only 10-12 years in perfect health; it doesn’t sound like she has a whole lot of time left. And what she does have will be spent at a minimum adjusting to a whole new center of gravity and a ton of new limitations.
We can offer our animals a boon that is not currently allowed to humans in the US - to not suffer unnecessarily simply to prolong the inevitable. I would spoil her rotten for a few days and then let her move on to the next adventure.
I’m so, so sorry you’re facing this.
We lost our Malamute Jack to osteosarcoma in his right front leg. It was up toward the shoulder. Because he was such a large dog (120#), he wasn’t a candidate for amputation. From noticing the limp to diagnosis to the day we put him down was probably a month, give or take a couple of weeks. The day we said “it’s time” was when we took him on a walk and he collapsed in a neighbor’s front yard. My husband and I had to solicit help to get Jack upright enough to hobble home. He was 8, btw.
Our vet says that the success of any kind of chemo/radiation is dependent on the type of cancer, where it’s located, and the breed/size of dog. I have no experience with greyhounds, but I do know a rule of thumb is the larger/heavier the dog, the less likely amputation will be successful. Lymphoma is very fast-moving in all breeds. Missy, my now-husband’s malamute whom he had before we married, went through two rounds of chemo successfully. It bought her enough time for us to marry and for her and I to become buddies. When the cancer returned full force we were told chemo would only buy her 3-6 painful months at the most. We said goodbye a few days afterward.
It’s difficult, I know. We shouldn’t have to play god or the universe, but if we don’t, who will speak for our furry family members?
I knew a women who was 96 when she lost part of one leg in an auto vs. truck accident. She got a prosthetic, went back to work for four more years, and lived to 102.
It comes down to the individual. An otherwise healthy and still active elderly human can rehab from an amputation and resume activity. Obviously, other elderly humans who have a host of problems and are in poor health will not be able to rehab.
Another factor - and this is important - is that dogs typically deal with a leg amputation better than a human being. Naturally, discuss it with your vet, but most dogs seem to adapt well.
Even if it’s not cancer, a non-healing femur is going to be extremely painful. If it won’t heal it is kinder to the animal to take off the leg.
Having known humans with bone cancer, including bone cancer involving bone breaks - it is horribly painful. If you don’t put your dog down now at least do the amputation to eliminate that terrible pain. Even if you opt NOT to treat the cancer, just give palliative care, removing a non-healing broken leg will make your dog much more comfortable.
JKilez, I’m sorry to hear about your dog.
From personal experience (with our Lab, who had lymphoma), I can reiterate that chemotherapy, while not pleasant for dogs, may not be all that bad (as is the case in some human cancer treatment). The problem is paying for an expensive course of drugs that’s viewed as only palliative. Only you and your family can decide if it’s worthwhile to prolong matters with an older dog who already would have to make a substantial adjustment to life on 3 legs (though dogs often do amazingly well in such circumstances).
Best wishes.
I’m sorry you are having so much difficulty with this situation. Most of us hope one day our beloved pet will simply not wake up, having passed peacefully in their sleep. Unfortunately, it rarely happens that way. Unless one is extremely old or ill when they get a dog, you HOPE and expect the dog dies before you. That means you have to make the decision on how much care to provide as the end nears.
I’ve had large dogs all my adult life, and I pretty much view 10 years as the ballpark over/under. If I didn’t get 10 years, I’d be pissed, but anything over 10 is gravy. As the pup nears/passes 10 years, the amount of care I’ll obtain decreases.
I also acknowledge the cost. Yes, I love the pup, but there is a limit as to how much I will spend to get an indefinite amount of additional time. (I know people who have spent thousands on dog care. That is their choice, but I do not understand it. And I've spoken with several vets who have acknowledged the substantial profits they make off such people.) The problem with setting a figure, is that you can approach it incrementally. A couple hundred for the first exam/meds, then another couple hundred for some additional testing, pretty soon you’re up to a thousand before they recommend exploratory surgery…
I really love my dogs, and I give them what I understand to be the best possible lives while they are with me. But part of that involves making the difficult decision as to when they should be put down. I’ve known many people who - upon later reflection - felt they waited too long before putting their dogs down, but not a single person who ever said they felt they pulled the trigger too soon. My anonymous/ messageboard suggestion is to use painkillers, take your time (days? weeks? months?) to say goodbye, and put her down when her quality of life declines. Then, mourn your pup’s passing, and wait til you feel the urge to rescue a new greyhound!
I know a lot of people who have amputated and a lot of people who have euthanized. It’s very much a personal decision and although lots of people (not those here, who have been very compassionate so far, but others I’ve known) like to arm-chair quarterback, you really can’t do that. However, I think Romansperson did a really good job of describing the experience and how to evaluate the decision. For me, it totally comes down to how much pain the animal is in, and I’m stronger than the average person when it comes to taking their pain into myself. Which is a rather poetic and silly way to say that I am strong enough to take away their pain at the cost of ripping my own heart out. I hate it, very much, but the way I see it is it’s the ultimate display of love.
Looking back on my Ajax’s life, he was unfortunate to always be having some kind of physical problems. He was a joyful boy, but he suffered more than he deserved. He had corneal abrasions three times that we had to treat, never figured out how that kept happening. A couple years before his cancer, he was having back pain. We were able to get it diagnosed as a bulging disk in his lower back, near the tail that was putting pressure on his spinal cord. That was treatable with surgery, so we did it. Only a couple hours post-surgery, the vet techs noticed he was peeing blood and realized that for unknown reasons his bladder had burst. After a quick consultation with the vet surgeon we agreed to have that fixed to save his life. So his recovery from surgery was actually front and back - he had 6-inch long incisions on his back and on his tummy alongside his penis. That was pretty awful but he recovered quickly and well.
Somewhat long, but I told that history because when he started having back pain again, we thought it was another bulging disk. We’d been treating him for the two weeks with pain meds and anti-inflammatories and had scheduled him for an MRI on Monday to figure out which disk was the problem. And the vet scheduled an xray prior to the MRI to make sure his lungs were clear. But the Thursday before, I noticed the lump in his shoulder. Over the two weeks his pain broke through the meds at an alarming rate until that weekend when he was having a LOT of trouble going up or down the two steps on our back porch.
He had to fast starting midnight Sunday night, for the MRI and I didn’t want him to suffer without his meds so I got up at midnight to give him his last dose before the procedure. It unfortunately didn’t last. He was able to jump into my car, but was in too much pain to jump out. He needed assistance walking into the vet - too much pain in his back legs. The procedure was scheduled for first thing in the morning but the vet hadn’t arrived when I got there. While in the exam room waiting for the vet (which was only about 15 minutes), he started to knuckle under on his back feet. He couldn’t lay down but it clearly hurt him to remain standing. He lost his bowels and as I was cleaning that up, I noticed that he was knuckled under on all four feet and in excruciating pain. (He was an 80-pound big boy.) I pulled him over onto his side, which hurt him but then at least he didn’t have his weight on the tops of his feet. When they came to take him back, I told them to get him some pain relief asap and told them that if the Xray showed what I thought it was (I told them about the lump and showed them where it was), we could skip the MRI. Also, when they took him back, he was completely paralyzed so they basically dragged him out of the room. It was awful in every way that it’s possible to be.
They brought him back to me on a gurney, thank god, and had dosed him with pain meds and I could tell he was no longer in pain. That helped us spend a few more minutes with him to say goodbye.
Not sure I agree with this bolded part. I think their average lifespan is 12 - 14, or possibly it’s a very broad hump in the bell curve that spans 10 - 14. I know/knew lots of greys that lived to 12, 13, 14, 15 and a rare few who live to 16. My female is currently 13.5, old and frail and I think her time is coming short. But she’s lived a good, long life with us.
Interesting group. It sounds like they are going good stuff and are worthy of a little plug.
Yeah, in most cases the chemo does provide a whole lot of additional time, but apparently 20% of the time it can knock the disease into remission for a couple years or more.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Yeah, thanks for that. She has been a good dog, I would just like to minimize her suffering.
With no complications, recovery time for amputation is two weeks from surgery to stitch removal. A dog would be generally mobile within a day or two after surgery. Being functional and being adept are two different things though, especially for an older dog.