I’ve had several birds in the past ten years, my favorites were my red-headed Conure (Frodo) and a pink rosella (Rosy). Both arrived in my life through different paths, both started out with clipped wings. In both cases they were extremely tame and friendly, and over the course of about a year I gave in to my kindest instincts and allowed their flight feathers to grow, so they could enjoy flying around in my room.
Frodo was released accidentally by my roommate, we both saw it happen, and he headed for the hills. I was in southern California at the time, so he may have survived.
Rosy snuck out the door the moment I opened it one day. It was fall, in northern California, so I doubt she survived.
Most birds, if allowed to fly, will fly as far away as they possibly can at the first opportunity. Clipping the wings is the most humane way to keep them from doing so.
There is no pain involved, except possibly for a moment of distress while being held. That’s not much of a sacrifice when compared to the loss of a pet.
gadgetgirl,
Don’t be a fucking numbnut. You clip a birds feathers (which is like cutting hair or nails- not painful) so it doesn’t fly into something and get hurt (ceiling fan, halogen light, sink of water, hot stove)
Argue your cat thing all you want, but don’t bother going the bird route- you’re just wrong.
If you don’t want a pet that flies, don’t get a bird. What an ass.
Whoa now. That just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. You’re saying gadgetgirl humanises her cat by choosing not to have it declawed, and you call her a goofball?
It would seem to me that any surgical procedure performed on an animal with the sole purpose of making the animal meet OUR expectations of it would qualify as “humanising”. Let’s face it, the reason people declaw cats is because they want their sofas intact when they come home from work.
I agree with gadgetgirl. It’s unnecessary, and can be avoided by not having cats at all. I have no idea what impact such a procedure has on a cat. But I also know a boxer will live happily with clipped ears and tail (I’m talking about the breed of dogs, mr. Tyson), and I find that procedure revolting too. Don’t like the way the dog looks? Don’t get one! Don’t like the fact that it wags its tail? DON’T GET ONE.
Don’t fucking maim the animal because you want it to fit into your world. And don’t start arguing with me here about how it doesn’t hurt them, or how they’ll be perfectly fine afterwards. I don’t care.
True the bird analogy doesn’t fly (sorry for the bad pun)…Yet, I got the root of her remark - which I assumed wasn’t literal, albeit a bit simplistic of a solution.
Still, I’m not going to be abrasive about it. But then, I have to remind myself, this is the BBQ board…flaming, and the like, are not uncommon here.
I still side with gadgetGirl, but as (I assumed) people have gathered from my above posts…I’m trying to be objective, and fair. Still, I have my own opinions on the matter.
In a perfect world, all cats would have their claws, no dogs would have clipped ears or tails, and all birds would be free to fly anywhere they want.
Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world. There are far too many unwanted pets, both strays and those in shelters. If the removal of a tail that may potentially knock over fragile items or removing claws in order to preserve the furniture means that animal now has a home, I’m all for it.
I was faced with this exact choice a couple months ago. A workmate was forced to get rid of one of her cats due to a family emergency, and I considered taking it. However, she told me that the cat was not declawed, and it had torn up a lot of carpet despite having a scratching post. I am in the process of selling my house - it was not an option to have a cat that tore up carpeting. As a result, I did not take the cat, and it went to the Humane Society. I tracked it for several weeks, and it did not get adopted. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect it was put to sleep. Is that really better than declawing?
(note: I supposed I could have taken the cat and gotten it declawed, but in all honestly, this never occurred to me until right now. I think part of it was that I was talking to the owner about simply watching the cat until she found someone to take it permanently, and I wasn’t about to spend the money to declaw when I wasn’t planning on keeping the cat.)
I guess she wrote “de-sex” to mean “neutered”. I took it to mean something along the lines of “castration” (who uses the term “de-sexed”, anyway?). Ah, well.
My main beef with the OP is that she’s painting everyone who - horror of horrors! - has their cat declawed as an inhuman, barbaric monster. I’m over at my friend’s house quite often. They own three cats, all declawed, and none of them ever go outside. They own very expensive furniture, artwork, decorations, and the like. In order to keep such things from being destroyed, they either have to A: get their cats declawed, or B: not have a cat.
However, they want to own cats. They like them. A cat can still be pleasant company and easing to the owner without its claws. Why would someone want to own a pet that causes unnecessary hassles? The alternative would be to have the cats taken to the pound and put to sleep. That’s humane?
gadgetgirl might well be a rational, educated, smart young gal. But when it comes to stating that declawing cats is “…cruel. Period.” and “is painful and completely unnecessary” for the cat, without any credible, unbiased, or reliable source whatsoever, besides some lame site, then I think I’m well within my bounds to label her notions as ‘goofball’.
Besides, she said those of us that believe in declawing, and actually see it as a safe alternative to other means, are “shithead’s”.
Shithead, or goofball?
I think goofball is not only better, but nicer.
And instead of homing in on that aspect of my post, why don’t you, or gadgetgirl, actually back up some of the more inflammatory remarks made in the OP… “Ask a vet, they will tell you about the reaction many cats have. (screaming in pain, bouncing off the cage walls, self mutilation)”?
Oh, and terms of the ‘humanizing’ comments that I made here earlier. Those are in response to her using terms that assume that declawing is painfull for the cat.
I have three cats, two of whom are declawed. The third one will be getting declawed soon. There was NO amputation involved. None whatsoever. I had it done by laser. The vet pops out the claw, like you do when trimming, and lasers off JUST the nail part. There have been numerous threads about this lately; try searching in GD.
I had one very aggressive scratcher. She clawed up the furniture, an antique hall tree and our legs. The other one was just following her lead in scratching. I bought every type of scratching post available; she could completely destroy one of those cheapy cardboard things in a day. Squirting her with water didn’t deter her in the least.
The vet was the one who suggested it; I was at my wit’s end; the only option was taking her back to the shelter where I got her in the first place.
It was not painful, at least it sure didn’t seem like it bothered them. I took them in one morning, it was done that afternoon, and they came home the following evening, with no bandages at all. They were both running and jumping as usual. I can’t imagine them jumping off the top of the entertainment center and playing chase if their paws hurt.
I had said no to the idea of declawing at first, because I thought it meant removing part of her toe, but the vet explained it to me in great detail. They both still have their entire toe joint. They do not go out. They both still “scratch” all over the place, but of course, nothing happens. The one cat loves to scratch on the big furnace intake vent in the hall; he likes the sensation of running his toes over the vent thingys.
As I said, they are strictly indoor cats. I have a question…do you keep your cats indoors? Most vets recommend it. Outside cats are more prone to disease and accident. Indoor cats live longer.
Is it more humane to let them keep their claws, and go outside, risking dog bite, getting hit by a car, picking up ticks and fleas, or contracting various deadly diseases, or humanely remove their claws and let them live a longer, more healthy indoor-only life?
I agree with you on the docking of ears and clipping of tails, though. I’ve heard that is done strictly for appearance’s sake.
Declawing a cat means cutting off the human equivalent of the first joint of their fingers. If we suggest that you should cut off the first joints of a human being’s fingers for convenience (let’s face it, 99% of declawing is done for convenience and no other reason), the outcry would rise to the heavens. But, when it’s done to “dumb animals”, people don’t think twice. We are the humans; we have a responsibility to look out for the animals that are in our care and control. Looking out for them does not include mutilating them for our benefit.
(In Calgary, the Humane Society makes you sign a contract that you will not declaw any cat that you receive from them.)
I’m arguing the point that animals should be kept in their natural state rather than “altered”, to use a euphemism.
You seem to have a different opinion. Obviously, it is up to you to prove that animals do not suffer from declawing, ear clipping, and what not.
The only point I’m making is that people should keep their pets as nature provided them. What in the hell do I have to prove here?
And like I already said, any proof that declawing is painless and does not alter the cats life is irrelevant to me anyway, as it completely misses the point: it doesn’t matter whether it hurts the animal or not. The main issue is the fact that people place the wellbeing of their home over that their cats is a clear indication, at least to me, that they should not have owned any pets at all.
Clipping the cat’s claws. Much like trimming OUR own fingernails. To say the cat is clawing up stuff in your house is akin to saying, “I don’t want to trim it’s claws with a toe nail clipper”.
It’s basic maintenance for cats. The trouble is, many, if not the majority of cat owners believe that cats are self-contained animals, and thus, once they have the cat, there’s nothing more to do (over cleaning a cat box - and that’s only for indoor cats. If the cat goes outside, perhaps there’s nothing to do beyond feeding it).
But then, that’s another blanket statement.
But the OP does suggest clipping the claws. I just think many people don’t want to do it, and many others don’t even know how, much less own a pair of proper clippers for cats.
If I trim my cats claws they CAN NOT scratch anything. Simple as that. I guess it’s a matter of convenience. But pets, like children, are NEVER convenient. It’s a job. It has it’s rewards, but you have to work at it, with it.
I think the “ideal” that many have about owning certain pets is part of the problem, in the first place.
But hey, it’s a cruel world, (as I’ve already said).
Not always. I realize we posted at the same time, but read my post. Doing it by laser does not remove anything but the “nail” part.
As I said, my cats came home the very next day, with no bandages and were running around as usual. They had no ill effects at all.
Yeah, Kinsey, I saw your post just after I submitted :). I have not heard of laser claw removal; I will have to look into this (not for my cat - she’s good as gold in the scratching department; just for my own information).
Tretiak, I don’t think the restriction affects adoptions much. People who plan to declaw will go ahead and do so without informing the Society. If they were caught, they would just lose the cats. I think the germane point here is that the Humane Society feels that declawing cats is not humane, and they are educating people this way.
Speaking from my own experience, I’d never have another cat declawed. When I was a kid my mom insisted on having our cat done and I was too young to argue about it. This is the same woman who yelled if you touched the walls (it leaves marks!!) and would make you eat outside if she just cleaned the kitchen. Image was everything, doncha know. The cat was in obvious pain for weeks, having to walk around on the surgery site as it healed. I don’t think I’m “humanizing” her by stating that it must have been a bitch getting bits of cat litter stuck in the stitches. As she healed, she could no longer claw anything, either for pleasure or defense and resorted to biting. She turned into the nastiest bitch of a kitty ever. The couch looked good, but the whole family was full of bite marks. It was really sad. And from the day we got her til the day she died, she tried to run outside at every opportunity. Because she had no claws to defend herself or climb a tree for escape, we had to chase her all over the neighborhood to retrieve her. So instead of getting a few frayed edges on the sofa, my mom had us crawling under neighbors cars to get the cat back. Good thinking, lady.
I think it’s unnecessary surgery and that is never a good thing. If having a pet doesn’t fit into your lifestyle, you should forgo the pet. Pets are a hassle, but that’s not really a good excuse for putting through that.
As for birds, I never did understand the attraction. They’ve been given the gift of flight, it’s what birds do, it’s who they are. I think it would be really depressing to lock that kind of beauty in a metal cage. But that’s just me. I’m not insulting anyone who keeps birds as pets, I just never got it. But I never knew what clipping a bird’s wings encompassed and I’m glad to hear that it’s just trimming feathers and not something more dastardly.
Get one that naturally doesn’t fly. I hear Penguins make good pets. Perhaps a chicken, or a turkey. And you don’t need a cage anymore, they can just walk around anywhere. And of course, with the latter, if things don’t work out, you can always have something to eat.
Peacocks look good, too. Now there’s a fancy bird to have around. Hah!
I trim my cat’s claws regularly, mostly whenever he starts kneading my lap and I start screaming in pain. He’s got BIG, SHARP claws. Fortunately, unlike many cats, he’s quite cooperative about the trimming. For some it is highly traumatic. But I’ve gotten pretty good at doing it quickly and calmly so that nobody freaks out, and I don’t accidentally hurt him.
I would rather see a cat be declawed rather than euthanized – I have known families that had gotten to that point – but speaking as a cat owner who DOES love her cat, I wouldn’t subject him to it without a damn good reason. Regular trims work wonders, as does having cheap student-type furniture that he’s free to abuse as his little heart desires.
I’ll only have on if it’s got the same political views as Opus!
And Whiterabbit, I agree that I’d rather see a cat declawed that put to sleep, but only after exhausting all other avenues and giving them an honest try. A lot of people get cats knowing they’ll have them declawed and I think that’s irresponsible and selfish.
(I always clip the cats’ nails when they’re sleeping. They never know what hit 'em!)