Been reading a few discussions regarding the anniversary of 9/11, and someone came up with the idea that cruise ships would be the next target.
What defences are there on board? Are the crew usually armed? I did work on a P&O ship once in Europe, there was full airport-like security to get on board, but I never saw a gun carried by anyone. There didn’t seem like much to stop a few terrorists from storming the ship when it was in port. But I’m guessing maybe security for this eventuality is discreet. Am I right?
Not sure if they are armed as in they have guns. Doubtful… I do know that ships sometimes fight off pirates with water hoses. I’d also heard that some ships had been equipped with those directional noise machines, designed to aurally incapacitate someone.
Well, there’s not much to stop a group of terrorists from storming any big gathering of people: mall, stadium, DMV, Google HQ, beach, or anywhere else.
So there’s no particular reason to try and protect the people on a cruise ship any more than the people in a mall or whatever. And, unlike an airliner, I don’t think there’s a lot of damage that could be done by taking over a cruise ship – sure you could ram an oil tanker or something, but you could do the same thing with a canoe, an outboard motor and some dynamite.
So I’m not sure cruise ships need any real protection. I’m sure there’s a decent amount of police on board when they’re full – a few thousand holiday partiers are going to require some kind of police intervention at some point. And no doubt if anyone intelligent is running a cruise ship past Somalia they’ll arrange for some kind of protection, but why should a cruise ship need special terrorist protection?
They are big sitting targets, but as you point out, so are a lot of other things. A strike against one would be for the body count. Catch one on the high seas or infiltrate operatives as staff. Take over the bridge, kill the radios, and start the massacre. Exfiltrate if you can, or go down bloody if you can’t.
The problem with catching one on the high seas is that they are pretty fast ships. You’d want to strike while in US waters as well, and that means the passengers will be able to communicate by cell phone. Not to mention being within easy reach of response teams.
I think the issue is that carrying any kind of arms on a vessel that has to dock in more than one country is a huge no-no. Governments of all stripes (US included I imagine) do not on the whole appreciate large groups of armed foreigners arriving on their shores (foreign navies require special treaties to do that).
To what end? Cruise ships are slow, and if they’re difficult to defend against a terrorist attack, they’re difficult to defend against a Navy SEAL rescue team.
Having been made to put fake potted trees along and in front of a walk-in door for a hotel, every time the alert level went up, and move them back every time it went down.
Yes, using potted trees that one man could push, or two could carry to stop a non-existent car bomber. It worked pretty well after all. Absolutely no car bombers got past our barricade and Management finally got fed up with spending money to replace the planters that got broken.
They finally got smart and bought poles, had us drill holes into the concrete walkway and cement in 20 or so… Hollow… Plastic… Pathetic… Yellow poles.
It must be possible and they are not heavily defended, but they are very organized, so a mall is probably easier. The captain can command the whole crew thru radio, if you take the captain out, it is clear who is in command, the crew trains regularly together for emergency etc.
Really? I often take the P&O Stena Line between Harwich and Hook of Holland, and the security is nowhere near as tight or invasive as at an airport. There are no X-ray machines, no bag searches, and no requirement to remove shoes, belts, backpacks, liquids, etc.; the most invasive search I’ve ever experienced was a border guard asking us to open the back door of our moving van. I always travel with a ferret and most of the time the customs officers don’t bother to check her paperwork.
There’s other problems too. For one, you can’t just hand guns to the crew and expect them to be able and willing to fight off a bunch of heavily armed people. They probably don’t have the training and why would they risk their lives like that anyway? They aren’t mercenaries, they’re staff. It would be like expecting the staff at a hotel to respond to a robbery attempt by launching a frontal assault with automatic weapons upon the robbers.
You’d need to hire a serious security force, trained and armed and paid well enough that they will risk their lives for it - that isn’t cheap. Especially when you do it for every ship you have. Which is why shipping companies find it cheaper to just pay the pirates ransom.
no security of ***any ***kind on a cruise ship? :eek:
that’s not exactly a comforting thought since i’m about to take a cruise in march… that’s what i get for assuming. i ‘assumed’ the bridge crew for example had training AND access to an arms locker in the event (og forbid) of a hijacking emergency.
I’ve taken several cruises (Carnival, Princess, Holland America), and they all have security. You definitely get at least the X-ray of belongings before boarding at each stop.
Also, while the cruise ship itself may not have armed guards, they do allow armed personal from the port they are visiting to come aboard, if necessary. In Halifax just last month I saw Canadian armed officers aboard our Princess cruise ship while we were docked.
Oh, they do have “security” to preserve order and reasonably protect persons and property from* likely *hazards. Much like a major theme park or casino resort would have “security”. What they do not have is organic “defence” – that is, tactical response against concerted armed action – capabilities.
As **Der Trihs **mentioned, a cruise ship crew is a whole bunch of guest-services staff plus a smaller group of actual mariners (deck & engineering), but no “marines”. Now, in the modern megaships they could probably spare the room and tons to fit a proper company of “shipboard police”, but: That would create a huge recurring cost against a rare threat and if you train, equip and arm them to directly fight off a terrorist/pirate strike, then you have the legal hassles over THAT as you move from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Even that seems dubious. A small group of armed people wouldn’t be able to (and probably would be unwilling to take the reponsability of) handling an hostage taking situation. Those are generally dealt with by specifically trained teams with very large material means (be it police or military).
If outside authorities were contacted, I’m pretty sure they would advise/order this “shipboard police” not to fight back.
I seem to recall reading at some point that some cruise liners hired Gurkhas to act as security against pirate attacks. No guns, just mean dudes with big knives.
That said, a cruise ship’s best defenses are an alert crew and fast sailing. While speed boats might be able to outrun a big ship at short sprinting distances, at long distances few small vehicles that don’t fly will be able to catch them.