Defend white supremacy! I dare you!

Great Debates
1

I recently started a GD thread – “How much racism remains in white America?” – http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243699&page=1&pp=50 Once thing that surprised me about the responses was that, while most posters agreed there is still a lot of racism here, none of them would identy themselves as racists or defend a white-supremacist viewpoint.

Come to think of it, I have rarely seen any white-supremacist posts on this board, and in those few cases the posters never seem to be heard from again.

Can it be true that there is still a lot of white racism in America, but there are no racist Dopers on the SDMB? Are we really that different than the general masses, that much of a self-selected cultural elite?

Or is it the case that outspoken white-supremacists on this board are routinely banned by the moderators? I hope that is not true. This should be a forum for all points of view.

Therefore, I am posting this thread just for the white racists. That’s who I want to hear from, assuming we have got any in the Doper community. Please remember that you are posting anonymously and there can be no repercussions. (Unless there’s features on this board that they haven’t told us about . . .)

Are you a white supremacist, or a “white-pride” activist, or any kind of “racialist”? Are you a member of, or in any way sympathetic to, the Southern Party or the Southern Independence Party, any Klan organization, any Christian Identity church, any Skinhead organization, any Nazi or other racist-fascist party, or any racist militia organization? If so, please tell us why. What is it about nonwhites that you find objectionable? What reason do you have for thinking that they are inferior to whites in some way, or so different that they cannot live among whites in a healthy society? Why do you think it is important to preserve racial “purity”? Please try to explain all these things in terms that even people raised with very different values and attitudes can understand. Please try to answer without using any impolite racial epithets that might give the mods an excuse to ban you.

If you are not a white supremacist, please do not post on this thread until at least the second page! I want them to get a chance to put their views on the table first, before getting blasted.

(Will the mods even allow this thread to stay on the board?)

2

I’m going to break your rule right off the bat, but just to point out that the vast majority of skinheads are not, in fact racist, that the roots of the skinhead subculture came from Jamaican immigrants mixing with the mods of England, that many skins aren’t white, and that many skinheads are actually anti-racist activists.

Okay, back to your thread, which (as a skinhead with staunch anti-racist beliefs) I find interesting.

3

Previous lengthy debate with a “white nationalist”: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=140292
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=140823

I don’t think we have any “live” ones around right now, so you may not get much response.

4

Wouldn’t anyone posting overt white supremicist statements be banned from the SDMB? Saying “whites are superior to blacks” is equivalent to saying that “blacks are inferior to whites”. A bannable offense, I would think. I suspect that the SDMB is self-corretcting in that respect.

BTW, while I don’t know if it’s a rule or not, you cannot (will not) get away with saying “only X type of people can post in this thread”.

5

There’s a sticky warning us against “flaming”, that is, personal insults in GD. Saying “you are inferior to me” would be against the rules. Saying “blacks are inferior to whites” would [b[not,** so far as I know. Mods, can I get a ruling? Please?

Of course I can’t stop anyone from posting. I merely requested that, for purposes of this thread, we really want to hear from the racists, so anyone who is not a racist, please refrain from posting until a bit later. Is that too much to ask?

6

The referenced GD thread – “White Nationalism II” – seems to be mainly about antisemitism and Holocaust revisionism. Obviously relevant topics, but different, I think, than what I’m asking about in this thread. Please, don’t tell me why you’re sure that Jews control the media and the government; rather, tell me why you’re sure that blacks and/or Latinos and/or Asians, etc., etc., are genetically inferior to whites. Or why Jews are genetically inferior to gentiles. (Or why Jews are superior and therefore dangerous.) That kind of thing.

7

As I said in the other thread, “racism” isn’t something we can attribute to people - it’s simply not true that there are “racists” and “non-racists,” because racism isn’t a property of people, it’s something else. (I’m quite happy to talk about what that ‘something else’ might be, but I get so tired of having the “Are you calling me racist?” and “You just pointed out a difference between black* people and white people - YOU’RE racist” conversation that I’ve had more than once on these boards)

The reason I feel so strongly about this is because I don’t believe anyone can ever be able to truthfully say “I’m not racist.” People can say racist things, or believe racist things, and still not be racist - and they can believe that black people are just as good as white people and still not be innocent of racism.

Clearly nobody believes that black people are inferior to white people and therefore deserve to be filling up the prisons, but, as you ably point out, there is still quite a lot of racism in the world.

This seems like kind of a logical problem to me:

  1. Racism exists. (true)
  2. Racism exists because some people have property X, but some people don’t.

To demonstrate this, we should be able to establish who has property X and who doesn’t.

How do we do this? Ask them? I should think not. Nobody will confess that they have this property. Does BrainGlutton get to decide who has it and who doesn’t? Do I? How can we prove point #2? If we can’t prove it, how can we assume it?

Isn’t it better to say this:

  1. Racism exists and it’s not clear why.

And then talk about why it might exist, without assuming that everyone falls into one category or the other.

I have read a number of things on this very board which I consider ‘racist,’ but can also understand that reasonable people may disagree. (It’s not like there’s a Big Book of Racism, where everything anyone could say is either listed in the “racist” section or the “not racist” section.) But I would never bring it up because I would (and have) be accused of either (a) being racist or (b) accusing someone else of being racist.

I dream of a day when we can stop with the accusing and have a productive discussion on the subject. But I’m not holding my breath.

*I am well aware there are other races and it’s not ahem a black and white issue. It’s just easier for me to say ‘black’ than ‘people of colour’ all the time, and y’all understand what I mean. For these purposes, please interpret ‘black’ to mean ‘an example of a race other than white’

8

Sorry to chime in before any self-avowed racists, but I think the OP will find that those who espouse the sorts of beliefs that he is looking for tend to identify these days as “white separatists” rather than “white supremacists”, and that the arguments will tend to be more along the lines of how it is somehow “unnatural” for races to mix. PC exists in the strangest places, it seems.

Anyway, last year there was influx of members from Stormfront.org, many of whom apparently were here to gawk at the liberal Commies and most of whom were banned for flagrantly violating board rules within their first two or three posts. A few stuck around and tried to duke it out in GD, but drifted away when they found it tough going to state their views in ways that could not be easily demolished on logical grounds.

9

Why does that surprise you? Do you assume any grouping of people will have at least some white supremacists?

I think if you’re really curious you’ll post your OP on a white supremacy forum. You are looking for a specific sub-set of heavy racists though. Most subscribe to “white pride” rather than supremacy and would think your lumping them together as PC propaganda.

FWIW, I’ve found they generally take historical/cultural instances or trends (cherry-picked to reflect their prejudice) and infer genetic causes. Often salted with personal anecdote. Now I’ll let your avalanche of condoned responses begin…

10

There are many white Americans who believe exactly that; I have met some of them in person, and inferred the existence of many more from certain websites. But I have encountered very few in SDMB.

[QUOTE=cowgirl]
Nobody will confess that they have this property [racism]. Does BrainGlutton get to decide who has it and who doesn’t?

[QUOTE]

That’s why I’m asking for responses from people who willingly identify themselves as racists. Or as “racialists,” or white-power advocates, or racial separatists, or whatever.

Once again, I ask the mods: Messages of racial hatred, etc., are not against the Board rules, are they? So long as they don’t involve direct, personal insults?

11

Someone just got a “hate speech” warning in the BBQ Pit for complaining about the people in Toronto. I’ll leave it at that.

12

If you have a question about the rules, you’re better off e-mail a mod directlly.

13

Personally am not a racist. However, on a different board I used to post to, we actually got one to start posting and encouraged him to present his issues, and others not to flame too harshly.
Since the probability of some sort of white supremacist is probably pretty low, might as well write down what I remember of that conversation:

The poster was, as I recall, from Norway or Sweden, and had become outraged by the amazing increase in crime rates due to an influx of arabs, and the way in which the government wouldn’t do anything about it or deport the refugees who misbehaved, as the general public held such to be too politically incorrect.

His general stance seemed to be along the lines that Norway (or Sweden) had been a perfectly nice place previous to the arabs coming, and since they had come, none of them had done anything good. So far as he could tell, to a man they were all thieving, rotten little buggers–and as such this must be a genetic trait. After all, it is only in the white hemisphere that we have nice happy modern civilization. Every well else they just sit around and complain, and have never done anything except kill each other and leach off the white man.
As such, it seemed best to just get rid of anyone not-white and just be done with the whole thing and let us get back to leading nice and happy, peaceful lives.

Personally, I am not terribly convinced on the whole genetic evilness of non-whites, but there it is.

14

Personally am not a racist. However, on a different board I used to post to, we actually got one to start posting and encouraged him to present his issues, and others not to flame too harshly.
Since the probability of some sort of white supremacist coming along is probably pretty low, might as well write down what I remember of that conversation:

The poster was, as I recall, from Norway or Sweden, and had become outraged by the amazing increase in crime rates due to an influx of arabs, and the way in which the government wouldn’t do anything about it or deport the refugees who misbehaved, as the general public held such to be too politically incorrect.

His general stance seemed to be along the lines that Norway (or Sweden) had been a perfectly nice place previous to the arabs coming, and since they had come, none of them had done anything good. So far as he could tell, to a man they were all thieving, rotten little buggers–and as such this must be a genetic trait. After all, it is only in the white hemisphere that we have nice happy modern civilization. Every well else they just sit around and complain, and have never done anything except kill each other and leach off the white man.
As such, it seemed best to just get rid of anyone not-white and just be done with the whole thing and let us get back to leading nice and happy, peaceful lives.

Personally, I am not terribly convinced on the whole genetic evilness of non-whites, but there it is.

15

Personnaly i think all people from all races are potentially racist. I happen to think its perfectly natural for people to be proud of there. Its also human nature to generalise and when one reads of race statistically are involved in more crime. Well that adds to the generalisation.

But in regards to whites theres no doubt they took there percieved supremacy to a extreme level resulting in understandable backlash. The result being from my persepctive is that its no longer ok to talk proudly of there heritage or even critisize other cultures except perhaps that weird offshoot called aussies.

16

I think we all have a little bit of racism in us. For example, here’s a kind of lame (but true) example from me:

When the street is empty, I am a bit more apprehensive of a white or black person in raggy or gangsta-style clothes than I am of an Asian person similarly attired. I think this probably comes from my not hearing much about ethnic Asian violence here in America (even though I know of many examples indicating that Asians in Asia are just as violent as anyone else). Since this is a heuristical bias, I believe it qualifies as racism, as it implies a belief that whites and blacks are more violent than Asians…

So, perhaps I am a very slight Asian supremacist? :wink:

17

So which is it, no racist dopers or very few?

Your devotion to rooting out racism is laudable. Somehow though, the OP gives me the impression of a kid on a playground who picks a fight, knowing that if he starts losing all the other kids will pitch in to help him.
After this exercise in futility, you could issue your challenge on the board at Stormfront. Might make for an interesting contrast.

18

Well, in a GD thread last June, “Why is the South so conservative?” – http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=190935 – there was a poster with the username of Himmler, who said, “Southerners attempt to limit the power of the central authority because they are a cultural minority. It also has alot to do with the alien, antagonistic, and hostile black minority within the South.” I haven’t seen a single post by Himmler since (and a username search turned up nothing) – either he was banned (which would upset me a great deal), or he dropped off the board, or he changed his username.

I’m not trying to root out racism. Lots of other people are working hard on that, more power to them. My interest here is more intellectual – I want to see a real debate between racists and non-racists – something we hardly ever see any more. And who knows, maybe the racists have come up with some new points lately – might be interesting. But there would be no point in taking it to Stormfront – because how would I find a poster there who isn’t a racist?

19

Well, that poster would be you.

20

Hi, BrainGlutton. I’m a White Nationalist. I’m not sure if I’m the type of person you are looking for, but do you have any questions?