Defensive firearms training, police vs civilian and center mass

When you clear a room, you want to be as fast and violent as possible. The trick is that you need every member of the team acting in sync with each other, while simultaneously covering every approach from which an enemy could attack. You can move quickly as long as every team member is on the same sheet of music.

The problem is that being fast and aggressive tends to get the team confused and disorganized. If the number one guy is moving as fast as possible and starts kicking in doors before the number four guy is ready, you’ve set yourself up for disaster and he’s likely to get everyone killed.

So the end result tends to have this weird start-and-stop rhythm. They are slow and deliberate when moving from one room to the next, but when it comes time to actually breach and clear the room they want to be fast and violent.

Without the leg strap, it really doesn’t. Just a different kind of hip pack.

Have you tested the draw without the leg strap? Based on the picture, I can see the bag coming up rather than the gun coming out. (without holding the bag with your other hand)

Yes! It’s fine. It’s really good full grain leather, so has a little heft of its own. Plus the weight of my phone, flashlight, knife, lipstick, powder compact, etc. The compartment falls open when unzipped, so easy to insert my hand, and the holster straps are not super tight, there are two wide elastic bands stacked inside, that protect the trigger and keep it upright, but don’t require a tug to pull the gun out.

This Quartz article claims that “In Spain, officers should fire a warning shot, then aim for non-vital body parts, before resorting to lethal shooting.” but with no citation. Is this an accurate claim?

This had got to be the most asinine policy if true. Warning shots are a terrible idea. Every bullet that leaves a gun barrel is dangerous. Firing warning shots is a great way to get an innocent killed. The bullet has to come down somewhere.

Not to mention the previously argued firing a “wounding” shot. Arms, legs etc. are hard to hit when the situation is keyed up. An extremity shot is likely not to take the bad guy out of action. If the sotuarion is life threatening you shoot for center mass and you keep pulling the trigger until the that has ceased being a threat.

Why is it so hard to underneath that a wounded person can still fire a gun, stab a knife, etc. Handguns are rarely one shot man stoppers.

I would love to know the context of some of these claims. I have seen many threads that claim European cops in various countries use warning shots. Yet they don’t include any explanation about what happens to the bullet, nor the circumstances in which the shooting happens.

(1) Warning shots are an incredibly stupid thing to do. Ever skipped a rock off a lake? That’s exactly what happens when a bullet strikes the ground. If you ever get the chance to watch someone using tracers you will see that many bullets do not just bury themselves in the ground. They deflect off the ground and go skipping on a random trajectory. This is why warning shots are not used in the US. I cannot conceive of why Europeans think its a good idea, but hey, that’s their problem.

(2) Not a cop, but I frequently have military escalation of force training, and you are allowed to skip steps. Escalating one step at a time is encouraged and can add credibility to the shooter’s claim that they only fired as a last resort. However, if the situation demands that you shoot the target right goddamned now you are not required to go through every nonlethal step.

What he said.

Sure. :smiley: