Not sure if this goes here or MPSIMS, but I’ve been thinking about men and women lately. It is clear that both have significant strengths (and weaknesses) but are there strengths that are exclusive or predominant in only one gender?
Please don’t post about bench pressing. Those of you who want to post about the comparative physical strengths can start your own thread.
How about we condense this down to three major strengths you think a “strong woman” would exhibit. Then, because anecdotes are evidence (kidding!), post at least one example of a woman you either know or know of that exhibits that strength.
Wisdom–Elizabeth I
Pragmatism–Eleanor Roosevelt
Endurance (perhaps more accurately patience)-- Rosa Parks
But they don’t have to be famous people. I might have said my Aunt Hilda for pragmatism, for example. Not sure if the traits I chose are predominantly female, though. :dubious:
My mom: was head nurse on the pediatrics floor of a hospital in a farm town, so she saw kids horibly mangled year after year, but didn’t let her emotions interfere with her professionalism.
Lost her first baby but, unlike 70% of couples who suffer such losses, kept her marriage. Suffered four miscarriages out of ten pregnancies.
Had the extra energy to constantly sew, knit, crochet, etc. even after arthritis made her hands look like grapefruit with mangled twgs stuck in them.
Always very cold to us, and sometimes an unfeeling bitch, buy you asked for strong, not nice.
I don’t see any difference between the qualities that make a woman strong and those that make a man strong. And I don’t see any difference between the qualities that make a woman feminine and those that make a man masculine.
Really? I see women as more accepting of life as it is handed to them, and men more interested in changing that which doesn’t work for them. That is not to say that women are passive or men aggressive, but to say that, as a whole, women will just let a situation be where men might feel the need to intervene. And the exact opposite is true, depending on the situation. It’s hard to speak in vague generalities, but to bring in specifics at this time of night is more than my brain can handle.
In no way am I trying to imply that one gender is superior to the other. I think that both genders have areas or aspects in which they are superior (and inferior) to the other–such it is to be human.
First of all, I think it’s hard to define a strong woman with only three adjectives. Actually, it’s hard to define a strong man with only three adjectives as well. That kind of leads to my second point, which is I agree in that I don’t think there are particular qualities that make a woman strong that wouldn’t make a man strong. I mean, if you want to I guess you could say “is in touch with his/her feelings and not afraid to cry” makes a guy wussy but a woman strong, but I think that opens up a big can of gender stereotype worms.
Thirdly, this is the type of OP that I really shouldn’t even be posting in because it leads to me being frustrated because I can’t properly articulate what I want to say. But I will say that I think it’s silly to think that a woman isn’t strong for any particular reason. All the women I’ve known in my life have been strong in some way, shape, or form. So have all the men. If they’re strong in one area, does that make them an all-encompassing “strong?”
Why do we have to perpetuate this kind of stereotypical thinking? There are 3+ billion of each gender on the planet. Don’t generalizations seem a bit silly in light of these numbers? Whatever gender stereotypes I hear people advancing always seem to me to be the product of a specific culture, not inherent to having and XX or XY chromosome.
Now, if you had asked, what does American/Western society say is a stereotypical “strong woman,” I could see the point of a discussion of how strength is differently defined for men and women. But I don’t think that question actually addresses what real strength is, only what the stereotypes say and what those differences say about our culture and how it bends people. If you want a real answer to the question of “what is strength?” you have to go past that, though, IMO.
What is the point of the OP? I hate to keep bringing it up, but for some reason I feel like eleanor is always taking swipes at men, even if it’s in a vague, roundabout way.
It feels to me that in this thread she is trying to slyly steer or manipulate posters into saying or confirming something for her.
But I almost failed psychology in college, so what do I know.
If you have a problem with her, either Pit her or PM her about it. There’s no need to try to slyly attack her with off-topic remarks. It isn’t clever or useful.
To answer the OP, I don’t think there are necessarily traits that mean strength in a woman but not in a man. I tend to admire the same qualities in men or women, and I think behaving in those ways is suitable for either sex.
Are men and women different in ways (other than genitalia) because there are innate differences, or because men and women are taught and socialized to behave differently, though? Nature or nurture?
I think you’re talking about two different things in the OP, eleanor - you’re talking about what strengths women have, and then you’re talking about what makes a strong woman. I don’t think these are the same things. For example, women are much more verbal than men, with a larger emotional vocabulary, on the whole, but I don’t think being verbal makes a strong woman.
I think there may be some truth in that. My mother is undoubtedly the strongest woman I know. She has spent most of her adult life taking care of other people–not just her own children, but also her dying parents, her in-laws, nieces, and assorted “strays.” Did she ever think about whether she wanted to spend days cooking and cleaning for her mother-in-law while the cancer ate away her bones? No, but somebody had to do it. I think that a great deal of what we traditionally consider women’s strength comes from their endurance.
And like Slithy Tove’s mother, my mom is strong, but not sweet. She doesn’t have any patience with weepers or whiners. But she will get it done, whatever it is that needs to be done. I also agree that pragmatism is traditionally a trait of strong women.
RichS., I’m not sure what you’re on about. I think it’s an interesting question, and I do think it’s valid to consider the different ways in which we think of strength in men and women.
I can’t think of any characteristic that is a “strength” when exhibited by a female but not one when exhibited by a male, or vice versa.
I could come up with some contextually-specific examples of behavior that might be (for example) deemed courageous in a female in a way it would not be in a male (because being female is PART of her context within that context, i.e., it makes a difference) — such as driving a car in Saudi Arabia —but even there, it is not really because the person is female, it is because the act itself has a different meaning for contextual, not biological reasons.
I think the people (male and female) I have known to be strong were one’s to see something wrong and DO SOMETHING about it, without needing to be guilted or pressured.
They saw something not right and came to a decision on their own, often even when the decision disagreed with the general consensus and made effort to fix it.
**Lakai’s Great Grandma ** - Escaped from her town with her two daughters while bombs were still falling. Returned to find that the Nazis burned the whole place down, people included. She had to raised her two daughters in the Soviet Union by herself, with practically nothing.
Lakai’s Grandma - Grew up in the Soviet Union. She lived in poverty most of her life. She can find a way to feed people in all situations. Much to my amazement, she doesn’t even need petty conveniences like gas stoves.
Lakai’s Mom - Decided to leave the Soviet Union. Searched for jobs while bringing a three-year-old Lakai along for sympathy. Worked on minimum wadge for our first few years in America. Santa Clause was “on vacation” until I was seven.
Lakai - Not a woman. Is grateful that he lives in a middle class suburban house and not in a third world country. Will probably not live up to the standard set before him.
Strength is relative to each person’s situation. I strongly believe that recognizing one’s strengths and implementing them in context with your environment makes both strong men and strong women. For instance, I have friends who chose to have the dad stay home with the kids while the mom works full time. The dad is very good with the children and the mom is a better earner. Egos and traditional roles have been set aside for the better of the entire family.
She was a promising dancer in her teens but then injured her legs in a car accident. Never having sung before she started performing at 17 and was one of the best jazz vocalists in the world at 21.
She became a movie star and ended up the biggest female box office star in Hollywood. In 1968 when her husband died, it turned out that he and an associate had embezzled all her money and lost it. She was in fact millions in debt.
So she reinvented herself as a TV star, her husband having signed a contract without her knowledge, taking control of the series and making it a success. She only worked to pay her debts, hating television.
She made back her lost millions, won a court case against her husband’s co-conspirator (she thought her husband was a patsy) and retired again.
When she found out that Rock Hudson had AIDS she helped him out.
She became a keen animal activist and has been known to pull over and chastise pet owners who have dogs tied up without water.
My wife is a strong woman. She thinks with her head, and I know that sounds silly but it’s true. No matter how pretty the car is, no matter how luxurious the house is, no matter how much fun the vacation is – she knows exactly what we can afford and whether it’s worth the cost to us. She also is unafraid to ask for the things most of us are too shy to ask for – a better rate on the credit card, a better rating on her performance review, more consideration from co-workers, more attention from her husband and children. She is not pushy, she does not nag – she simply knows the way the world should be and goes about making it that way. She is compassionate almost to a fault, but she is not always gentle. It’s hard to describe, really, but I’m reminded of that really stupid line from “As Good As It Gets”: She makes me want to be a better man.
Anyway, she’s my hero, and her strength makes her heroic.
My question is probably badly worded–I wasn’t sure how to attack this issue. This thread is not intended to be anti-male in the slightest, but I challenge our guest, RichS, to explain how and why delineating the characteristics of a strong woman somehow slights a man? The one does not follow the other. Can we define the strengths of either gender without reference to the other? That’s an interesting question in and of itself.
I suppose what I’m truly getting at is how do we (you) define a strong person*? I started with women because I am one, and I have a dear friend who in the short space of 6 months has had to quit her job, has become a grandmother (her daughter is unmarried and unemployed), and her dog and her mother died in the same week. How she is not jibbering in the corner escapes me, frankly.
To get personal, I’ve been called “strong” all my life (well, after about age 10). My friend’s situation got me to thinking about “strength” and how we define it socially. Is it courage in adversity (and what is that?)? Is it just plain getting up day after day and not quitting? Is it keeping a good attitude or outlook–the looking for a pony when the room is full of shit?
I don’t see taking life as it comes as stereotypical at all. It may well be the ultimate in pragmatism.
I don’t see separating gender from culture–it’s a loaded question (or a hot button issue) to be sure, but girls are not just socialized to want dolls and boys trucks (I’d say guns, but don’t want RichS’s head to explode). I am not even trying to make that old, stale point or rehash nature vs nurture when common sense tells us all that it is a mixture of both. I was merely curious as to how a strong woman is defined and sharing some of my observations. Sure, generalizations can be useless–I was just trying to air some ideas. Is there some elemental mix that is unique to a gender OR is the elemental mix the same, but manifested differently in both genders?
My poor phrasing is to blame. This is much more succinct and more properly focused. Thanks!
*knowing full well that limiting such a thing to 3 characteristics is ludricuous.
I agree re Doris Day, btw.
I have to work Th and Fr, but I’ll check back when I get home.
To me, the things that make me respect someone are essentially the same character traits, regardless of gender. How they may manifest differs from person to person, and sometimes that does break down along gender lines (yay stereotyping), but often it’s more a function of the person’s individual background and preference than a function of straight-up gender. So let me see if I can quantify what makes a strong person, and maybe give an example in each case of how a woman in my life has exemplified that.
Stability: No man is an island, but every person must be their own rock, I think. I respect people who provide their own stability, and don’t rely on others to provide it for them. Whether that’s emotional, financial, intellectual, or some other category, I think a lot of “strength” comes from having a solid base in oneself that lets one interact with the world from a place of confidence and joy. Example: Midori. She is a kink educator who travels the world providing classes and information to people who want to learn. She has her own heart, her own mind, her own wallet - and she doesn’t let anybody mess with any of those without her explicit permission. She is the epitome of “I will do it myself, because there is no one to do it for me.” I suppose self-reliance comes strongly into play here, as well.
Pragmatism: deal with the world as it is, not as you would have it be. At the same time, remember that you have power to make the world what you would have it be, if you will only take responsibility for choosing to exert that power. Be practical - know your limits, and work to the edges of them. Don’t waste your time on wishes and dreams when you could be making plans. Example: me. (And doesn’t that tell you all you need to know about my ego? heh.)
Compassion: No man is an island. If you want to function, you have to function well with the other sentient creatures around you. If you want to function happily, chances are good you will need to form relationships with other creatures in order to do so. Compassion is the key to that. Example: my mom. She even loves me, and that’s a tall order more often than not. She has compassion for people she knows, people she doesn’t, and people who don’t even deserve it. Her empathy gives her strength - strength to love, strength to provide, strength to keep going when everything looks hopeless. (She works in a cancer ward.)
Is grateful that he lives in a middle class suburban house and not in a third world country. 
Will probably not live up to the standard set before him.